That’s me this season…i play in groups and grind but this season I’m a grinder but solo…the fact I grind means I have more paragon than casual group and solo players and the only players beating me are grinding group players of which there are few.
A grinder in groups who goes solo will still beat group and solo players who do not grind because Paragon wins the game.
I’ll agree that Paragon matters a great deal to progression, but I don’t think higher Paragon automatically wins. Same argument with all the bandwagoning players who think slotting the right combination of items and skills will automatically make them invincible.
Even the most efficient tool will fail in the hands of the unskilled.
If u equip ApD’s with Arlyse u get damage reduction from the frozen mobs surrounding u. Though cuz of the cc immunity on mobs after u freeze them, u better keep moving since u wont freeze them again with the next frost nova.
Back to topic… Personally i do both group and solo, but can like grouping since u get more exp much quicker. Aint been playing much these last few Seasons but when i do, i been playing more semi casual last few Seasons but still can find group play since i zmonk.
That being said i actually am liking the power creep… cleared a 115 with less than a 1000 paragons and came close to a GR120 a couple times with my Shelong PoJ… A little too squishy because i dont got enough toughness from vitality/main stat yet. Keeping kill count timer low for double damage is another issue when high pushing… Had a big Silver Spire GR with the 4 big platforms and blew it cuz my double daamge fell off. Tried going to the next floor to let my timer reset but lost too much progression. 120’s definately doable but gotta find the right rift and pay attention to things like explsions, walls ect…
I pretty much took Arlyse for two reasons:
-Frost Nova gives me a chance to escape when swarmed in melee, or a chance to stack the hell out of my twisters and nuke them before they can recover
-The feedback response from the controller which occurs during a procced nova tells me when my Illusionist passive has reset my Teleport cooldown, without having to look at the buff bar. This can be a split-second decision, which is made far easier and faster by that rumble.
It’s worked fairly well for me so far, but believe: I am always looking for ways to tweak what I’ve got. I don’t just slot one build and continue on forever with that; every character I play changes over time.
Of course…in group play, I wouldn’t have to worry about getting swarmed at all.
@Blessed, Throw on some Ancient Parthan Defenders so u can get the damage reduction from the frozen mobs. Frozen counts as stun… be sure to keep moving too since u cant freeze enemies for a certain time limit.
In group play u would have fun melting everything since ur supports will keep u alive… basically u go glass cannon with ur build but u will still be tanky AF.
The goal should definitely be to have solo and multiplayer balance. A few changes would help a lot.
I couldn’t sacrifice Ashnagarr for that, to be honest. The duration extension just isn’t worth losing half my shields.
No but it makes it easier to automatically win…
Don’t lie to people Zmonk gear is the most cancerous thing to get ever. Most wasted materials ugh 
Even then, those 95% casual gamers get a massive boost over solo players. I remember playing alongside homer and another guy in a 3 man group. 45 minutes of play, just under 70 paragon levels. I think we were doing 3 man 110s - it was earlier on in the season and it would have been time consuming to do 110 runs solo - would have probably taken me 13 minutes per run - vs 6 mins in the 3 man group. I worked out at the time that I probably would have gotten around 16 paragons from doing it solo, for the same time period spent/effort. Let me see, 60-70 paragon levels vs 16, mmm which one is better? It clearly tells me that group play is unbalanced and much easier than solo play. For greater rewards. No wonder so many people love group play and will fight tooth and nail to see that advantage remain.
That is also not true. Some of us have a life - work and family and simply don’t have that option to waste 10 hours a day on a game…
not quite. A reasonable comparison is 400m sprints - where you’re completely legit and your competitors are using steroids and bionic enhancements to enable more speed. Imagine if the olympics had that - would it be allowed? would it be deemed fair competition? Ask yourself that. That is the sort of advantage that group players get on the “solo” LBs.
The group grinders would just do solo grind and win. But, it would be a much flatter LBs - no 15 GR differential between the best group and solo players that we currently see - it’d be 2-4 GRs at maximum imho. A much more competitive LB where skill would matter more than paragon farming.
I rest my case.
the power creep has helped us “casuals” feel like we can play the game. Hit a 120 GR with my DMO twister wiz @ p830, no augments, not perfect gear (but all ancient at least). Pretty sure that I can do a 122/123 “as is”, but I am pretty new to wizard and still learning, plus, playing HC.
drop 30% for 2-4 man and tier it like:
2 man - 23%
3 man 26%
4 man 30%
personally, I’m in favour of dropping the XP bonus for group play altogether - replace it with increased magic find chances. A much better balance imho.
Same. I’d take this as a compromise though. Since Blizzard for some silly reason, believe that multiplayer must be rewarded more than solo.
What I dont get is how they in any way can argue that some multiplayer should be rewarded more than other multiplayer. As in, why should me playing with 3 friends be rewarded more than me playing with 1 friend. That is just complete nonsense.
More so than the nonsense of rewarding multiplayer at all.
I see this more and more in games. They’re trying to force multiplayer. Some games are outright designed to require it; mostly MMOs. I wonder if that could have anything to do with the fact multiplayer on console is no longer free…
Blizzard’s balancing ability went out the window when D2 was released. I had a high level blizzard sorc in D2, that was ruined by the blizzard nerf - it was quite a massive nerf. You couldn’t re-spec skills in D2 in those days, so it was game over for me. Absolutely retarded in the worst sense of the word.
Not trying. They are.
Blizzard’s mantra seems to be get as much income as possible from half finished game, for as little expenditure as possible, and don’t worry about actual balancing in game. Also, favour group play over solo play, nay, make solo players lives HELL. Oh, and don’t fix issues with the game, and bugs. Adds more excitement to the game wink wink. I mean, how long did it take them to get the nerve to remove bazooka wiz from the game, when it was clearly evident that 99.9999999999% of players playing that build were cheating?
Even now, several builds are on pedestals - POJ monk, WW rend barb, HF cru, god DH, bone spear necro. They’re so far ahead of every other build for each of the respective character classes it isn’t funny. That’s not balancing. Far, far, far from it.
Playing as a group (or raid in games where it applies) brings the full gamit of utility from all the different classes, allowing the group/raid to be more than the sum of it’s parts.
It’s a rewarding experience that also takes compromise on the side of social elements.
It’s not for me to say should any game work this way or not work this way, but I was genuinely curious what games in this genre are out there that reward group and solo play equally - and are attractive to players who like grouping and players who like soloing at the same time.
The only answer I’ve seen so far is PoE. That’s not one of the many I’ve played so I can’t comment on that one unfortunately. It seems to be an exception to the rule from my online RPG experience.
From the games I have played, where grouping works well as described, only a limited number support solo play across all of the classes. Those would be D3 and Guild Wars. Both have quite elegant designs for what they are to my mind and I’ve enjoyed playing them… both primarily solo as it happened.
Other games I played I’ve been more involved in the group/raiding element where solo was less viable.
Which is fine. Multiplayer is indeed its own reward. No need for additional in-game rewards.
Neither Diablo, nor PoE, are MMOs though.
Most A-RPGs do not directly reward multiplayer more than solo. Only Diablo 3 afaik. Now, many of them indirectly do, by making multiplayer easy-mode compared to solo. Which is problematic too. Once again D3 is exceptionally bad in that regard though. No other A-RPG comes anywhere close to being that unbalanced.
Multiplayer should probably be a tiny bit easier than solo, just to avoid the situation PoE is in, where people might not want to play together, because it is inefficient. But the two should be pretty close. Most A-RPGs seems to manage this reasonably well. Except D3.
In D2, grouping is also easy mode, but it also comes at the cost of less loot per player. Not a good way to balance things, much better if they are both equally rewarding and challenging, but at least they tried.
I noticed earlier, dpasterns point on this and I have been giving it some thought. Maybe there is a point here:
I’m going to edit that post to describe “online RPG” instead of “MMO” for the purpose of the topic at hand.
Get us out of the side topic of whether D3 qualifies as MMO or not.
well, the Diablo games have always been about LOOT. Loot find. Gear. Except for D3, which primarily revolves around multiplay and farming paragon, since paragon = dmg. I remember when paragon was introduced (I wasn’t playing the game at the time, but a friend was still) and he told me about it and I didn’t like it. Of course, paragon v1 is different to paragon v2. The latter made the former much, much worse, and far more insidious into the game.
There is simply zero need for paragon to be giving XP.
What I like about Paragon is it adds another dimension to the game. Another thing to develop.
With that said, it’s accepted paragon wins seasons and that is where I think there’s a point to consider in what you said about grouping adding bonus to xp.
Also to consider is what keeps people coming back to play. Varied reasons I’m sure.
What is there to do after level 70, be it seasons or non. Paragon and gear improvements to push GR. I like the elegance in this, but I give room to consider balance of Paragon v Equipment in that equation… and within that consideration, there is how XP is contributing to Paragon and consideration of solo/group balance.
At least that’s how I’m rationalising what I understand so far.
Would I play Diablo 3 in my group if they removed the group exp bonus? No not at all it’s too much fun in the party chat. Even if all of us are just at the cube at the end of the day. Especially in California where everything is shut down my social life is my friends on this game or any game I play atm.
In my head it comes down once again to whiny group/clan PC players. I am going to group all the time regardless because it’s more fun for 99% of the game. (Except key farming I like to pick up everything and clear floors I hate when people are just key focus in my game so that’s always solo)
It’s funny though this season the twister wiz is so strong once you get the gear its a solo 150 build under 2K paragon if your a skilled wiz player (I am not lol)
Just wait til next season when they buff the wiz more because the game on pc is so different that console, I don’t mind but sheesh more power?.