Game breaking issues: A PvP player's perspective

First of all, I would like to say that I am and have been a D2 PvP player for many years. I’ve been a part of organizing tournaments and many other competitive facets of D2 PvP, and have developed long-lasting relationships/friendships with other people via D2 PvP. To say that I am passionate about the D2 PvP scene would be an understatement, and my knowledge of the nuances of PvP is vast. As such, I am writing here to voice my concerns about the current state of the remaster, as well as offer my opinions and knowledge base to anyone at blizzard who wishes to reach out. In this post, I will be focusing on the ultrawide screen advantage, however notably the current state of barbarians (referencing WW animations, and ALT wwing) is also a very important topic.

Problem: The ultrawide screen advantage & how it impacts the balance of PvP.
As has been brought up in a wonderful post by DHA (linked here: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/d3/t/report-extended-screen-range/32107/10 ) The ultrawide screen advantage has serious impacts on the current state and balance of PvP in D2, and after reading some comments from people in the community I feel it is useful to outline how exactly it can affect the game. The core fundamentals of what constitutes a PvP encounter in D2 can be boiled down into many categories, but let us focus on two that the ultrawide screen advantage impact. Positional advantage, and name locking (notably, the ultrawide screen advantage probably impacts more, but for sake of brevity, I will use these examples to convey my concern).

A positional advantage in D2 is a nuanced, matchup-dependent, and often overlooked property of D2 PvP. To define it simply, a positional advantage is when player (a) occupies a place on the map that garners an advantage against player (b). In order to occupy an advantageous position on the map, one must process a series of information and determine the strength of their position and whether or not to move or hold strong. Let us look at a classic example, Necro vs Trap sin (hence forth NvT). In this matchup a necro will field spirits and teeth (fielding: defined as lingering skill hitboxes throughout the map to do damage and manipulate the opposing player into less advantageous positions), and traditionally the trap sin aggresses towards the necromancer. Positionally NvT as a matchup heavily relies upon correctly determining the positional strength of your opponent in order to determine the winning sequence of actions in the duel. For example the necromancer, must ask oneself, is the environment riddled with obstacles I will get stun locked on? Is there a wall I can break namelocks with? Do I have the space to WSG out of a sticky situation and re-posture? Is the assassin baiting me to go one way where I will land in traps. And so on. For the assassin, processing the information of the opossing necro’s fields is vital to not eating “chip” damage, and being able to agress effectively.

Now that we’ve laid out the matchup, and how important processing of information is for maintaining or acquiring a positional advantage. One can easily see, that simply having more information to process on their screen, fundamentally and egregiously disrupts the balance and state of pvp. An assassin with an ultrawide advantage in this matchup never eats chip damage, because simply put they can process the positional information faster than the necromancer. If the necromancer has the ultrawide advantage, they simply never fall for baits by the assassin, and they can process information about the strength of an assault much faster (ex. this sin is agressing without their shadow up, making my position stronger here) way before the assassin ever shows their hand. Namelocking aside for now, this fundamentally disrupts the balance of PvP and will result in very nasty and unfair advantages for whoever has an ultrawide advantage. Even if you were to limit the space which an ultrawide player could input actions on. When we delve into the realm of team dueling, these advantage get exploited to an even higher degree.

Namelocking is when a player clicks and holds on a target with a spell, and the player will automatically aim their spells at the target regardless of where they move to. Name locking is arguably one of the most core prinicpals for any duel in D2. Being able to namelock farther than someone else due to an ultrawide advantage, will ruin the game for anyone not exploiting this advantage. Why so? Let us take our NvT matchup as an example. Assume that the assassin is exploiting the ultrawide advantage, how does this impact the matchup? Well, the assassin can namelock the necromancer while outside the visible range of the necromancer. If the assassin is able to namelock the necromancer without agressing into the visual field of the necromancer, the assassin can start a mindblast → trap sequence without any of the risks traditionally associated with the matchup. Flip the exploit to the necromancer, and we have a necromancer that can namelock spirit / spear an assassin before they are in a range to iniate a sequence of mindblasts and traps and will result in the assassin taking immense damage before the traditional interactions of the duel even take place. The problem here is clear, regardless of matchup statistics, the player exploting an ultrawide advanatage has an advantage over the player that doesn’t prior to the duel ever starting. Furthermore, it will fundamentally change the nature of PvP matchups, which contrasts with the design philosophy of the D2R team to deliver an authentic D2 experience.

If you care about providing your customers with an authentic experience, that mirrors what is expected by your beloved, loyal community. Please consider the PvP community, and address this game breaking issue.

Thanks for reading

  • Lofty
23 Likes

What are you talking about?

Getting hit with guided arrow and foh all the way from cold plains sounds super fun!

lol…

5 Likes

So do you think the only solution is to disable widescreen for everyone? What I think they should do is separate PvM and PvP, add the Arenas and start balancing the PvP like any other modern pvp game. When you join a PvP game, they disable widescreen mode and load in SkillsPvp.txt with the appropriate changes. What do you guys think?

2 Likes

Man stop trying to make this an Esports.
Otherwise i have to complain about 16:9 users because i put back on my desk a 4:3 Screen :nauseated_face: (no, not really).

Im one of those Ultrawide Users and no, i wont participate in PvP Actions anyways.
If they would remove Ultrawide Support for a small grp of more or less hardcore PvP Players i’d hit the Refund straight.
You’ll most likely have seen those Ultrawide Records on YT already or somewhere, when you directly sit in front of one of these and have a fully supported Game, then it is gorgeous, that Level of Immersion you cant have on a highly limited 16:9 Screen.

That is the whole purpose about these Screens, even if Valorant in example has had Ultrawide Support i wouldnt play that Game on there because the Panel aint fast enough to play under serious conditions. D2 might be an exception if you can rlly teleport further etc. but has anyone ever questioned how far you couldve teleported on a 4:3 screen?

4 Likes

Very good post obviously. By someone that knows what he is talking about.
Agreed on everything.

It’s a disaster in PvP but also game breaking in Multiplayer PvM (players vs monsters).

Blizzard/VV must say something about it. Because at the current state it is non sense.

A limit has to be set on the screen size (16:9 for everybody for example). Without limit people will abuse it (with or without wide screen) to reach some absurd “Moon view”

Here what you can do :

https:// i.imgur. com/W0Pfl6G.mp4

Solutions :

  • Wide screen support for Single player only. Then people with wide screen can still enjoy it even if it’s totaly game breaking even in PvM (players vs monsters) since monsters AI doesnt work that far. You can see and hit them without being on their AI range.

  • Wide support for multiplayer also but once you get hosted it appears a “fog of war” and mouse is locked to 16:9 (ex https: //i. imgur .com/gVeiyX8.jpg)

  • Wide screen with Locking screen and add bars (limit it to 16:9) : https: // imgur .com/hG2tXU1

  • Wide screen zoomed no extra range (probably best option) : https: //i .imgur .com/RuufYwR.png

DHA

12 Likes

I cant speak for everyone else, but one thing that makes pvp in d2 so unique and fun is that anyone can hostile at anytime.
It makes some pvp games very interesting and dynamic forming little alliances and betrayals in these random games.

Not to mention pking is a thing. Some people might look down on it, but its nonetheless part of the intended game experience.

Im not interested at all in arena modes really.

5 Likes

Where’s the TLDR ? lol j/k.

I agree the monitor issue needs attention, however, why doesn’t anyone mention the shared stash. 3 stashes full of buff gear is vastly more game breaking for pvp than a wide screen monitor imo.

2 Likes

In the realm of GM pvp this is a non issue, as for bm pvp, when one contemplates the extent to which they can prebuff to gain an advantage, the limitations generally arent due to stash space, rather they are due to options for pre buffing. To be honest, I am not too worried about the situation you’re defining. But if you feel strongly about it make a thread!

Did anyone ever not have glitched out Mephisto in example on 4:3 screens, like pulling him towards the blood channels so he doesnt attack and just goof around?

Im just confused how this suddenly is an ultrawide issue. Ive played D2 a few months ago on 4:3 Aspectratio with blackbars, it only did look awful but was it a “harder” experience to put Mephisto on his Spot and abuse his pathing Bug? no it wasnt.

Honestly people that want to PvP and need the Integrity should play the old version, its not like anyone asks you to buy the “worse” version right?
Like whats confusing to me is that people act like there wasnt any bugs on 4:3 back then, like its all the fault and issue of Ultrawide… how come? And also how come that people that play on 16:9 Ratio feel exalted above those still sitting on 4:3 ? Just because it became somewhat an Industry Standard because the Industry is way behind? Ultrawide is on its way and even other Games have it supported for a long time by now. Even Diablo 3.

Like you will still bug out monsters even on 16:9 and guess what ? it will be much worse than 4:3.

What they can do in my opinion is to put the Game into a “force Classicmode”, means old graphics and 4:3 Aspectratio for those enabling PvP, like putting these minor issues that already existed since this Game was released on those who make an issue about it, but dont make that issue an issue for others that have nothing to do with it.

Those who organize tournaments and pvp can download the old client and modify as required, may even put an anti cheat over it and be done.
Im really not a fan of making changes on the outside, while the whole core foundation is a mess.

If you want this thing balanced out, go to 4:3 Aspectratio (nope you dont need to waste your money on Resurrected this way), blackbars left and right, have an anti cheat running that acts like a trojan since it also has to record keypresses and then we can talk about that PvP again.

I find the Ideas a complete nonsense to be fair, trying to build a game around a minority that doesnt have a clue how competition really needs to be in order to be fair and at the same time ruining the whole game and experience, by forcing it on a Game that isnt made for.

Like people want to pvp in an environment, where the lowest life can have the biggest success and everyone else will be like :nauseated_face:
Just because D3 didnt get PvP or the back then announced Arenas doesnt mean that this was ever a good experience.
I remember in D2 when no lifers and botters/cheaters came into the Game and just turned PvP on and the whole Bnet was full of these, since then ive not played in public matches anymore.

But yea, lets trash Ultrawide Support… make more issues rather than solving a single in the core of the Game.

1 Like

First of all, regardless of size of community, why is one entilted to something more than the other? We want an authentic d2 experience, thats it. That includes PvP as it was.

Secondly, we’re not trashing Ultrawide support. Infact, I would prefer if ultrawide was supported, but the inherent advantage in PVP and PVM that being able to see more of the map on one screen introduces, is 1, not authentic to D2. And 2, introduces a plethora of new interactions that disrupt the intended original experience of D2.

Furthermore, we want to pvp on the new graphics, just as much as you want to PVM on the new graphics. I don’t find that to be too unreasonable.

6 Likes
https://i.imgur.com/W0Pfl6G.mp4
3 Likes

If you click the </> button and put your link in there, you should be able to post a link without having to space it out, It’s kind of hard to see and erase every space.

1 Like

Ok so being able to put on 9 cold gcs plus cold gear to prebuff armor spell, then swapping to 9 lite gcs and lite gear to prebuff lite skills, then 9 fire gcs and fire gear for the fight is no big deal, idk i disagree. You are right this is not on topic, I was trying to imply that the issue of monitor size is not important at least among the pvpers I know.

https://youtu.be/2qmea0jzeQ0?t=14

HUUUUUU!!!

2 Likes

lol it’s by far the most important issue for the pvp community.

Everybody is waiting to see if it gets fixed or not.

7 Likes

Yeah haha. It is the same. But to reach that view in D2 you need “hacks” (For a reason).

Now in d2r it’s a legit feature. :rofl:

5 Likes

omg…

ok forget it, it was a video of a hack, hope it doesnt work that way in d2r

3 Likes

It’s same mate

https://i.imgur.com/W0Pfl6G.mp4

Thats D2R

5 Likes

y i saw that one, i bet they have that already fixed, i cant believe they dont

2 Likes

Like the whole arguementation is just flawed on the core.
You want to keep YOUR 16:9 advantages but take away any the 21:9, while you still sit ahead of 4:3 users and i wouldnt wonder if they still exists in some poorer countrys that dont purchase the Hardware.

A competitive environment runs the exact same identical hardware, you’ll get the same harddrive, the same pair of headphones and so on and thats how you then start competition and when your match is finished your harddrive and all keylogs will be observed.

The whole point about purchasing resurrected is to have improved Graphics and a fresh breeze of air. The reason why Diablo 2 is fun in alot of ways is because there are many tricks and glitches you can toy around with because all of them are part of the Gameplay.
Alot of Games have gone the way of bugs that became part of Gameplay to keep them in because theyve made it special. Others have removed them and suddenly the Game was worse.

I did not miss a single second of PvP when ive played D3 RoS and i did never miss it in D2 just because the whole thing is really messed up.
Like those Enigma Pallys that joined the Game, turned PvP on and ruined the entire Baal Run, people did quit the Games so fast after experiencing this, it was nothing but griefing.
Whenever those things happend we whispered each other and made the new runs private instead. It has added no value apart from disrupting the Experience.

4 Likes