I dont think is -3, i’m not a wizard specialist, but they removed the channeling bonus when you enter archon form, so that thing means no deathwish bonus. losing 325% multiplicative damage is way more than 3 GR levels…
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Vyr/chant should be around -3.5. The rumored bazooka nerf is supposed to be -7, pushing it to 141 or so. Lamentation from 200% to 0% is -7, pushing it back to 133.
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Okay so what does that bring it down to with 10k paragon and reasonable fishing?
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I would just like to state that the removal of a buff that was never implemented is not a nerf. A nerf is when the power of an item is reduced, not not buffed. And the PTR is not a release, it is a beta version of the game specifically to weed things out like overpowered buffs before hitting a real release. A tease, sure. Kind of a d**k move, absolutely. But not a nerf. But totally agree with TuneOut here.
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I reject your semantics argument as irrelevant. The change from PTR results in WWrend no longer being a viable DPS build.
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Probably only a few GRs tbh. It’s a buff, sure. Whirlwind will be stronger. But it’ll still require a lot of fishing for mediocre results. Which defeats the point of buffing the build in my opinion. It needed a 10+ GR buff, not a 3 GR buff.
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Semantics, sure! That’s why I said that I agree with TuneOut at the end. I sided with you if you didn’t notice 
.
Just want to draw the line between nerf and doing nothing. Does it keep barbarians down where they were already low and make the gap further from the top with the other added buffs. Yes. Is it a good time to play Barb? No. Will I argue Semantics till I make your head pop off? Probably. Will it probably piss people off? You’re welcome.
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Your argument is right, this buff was never a thing in live so technically if they remove it is not a nerf, but barbarian will still be in a bad spot if they don’t buff lamentation to at least a part of the power it had.
People will not be happy reading what you said anyways.
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Yep. It’s a garbage decision that they based off of crazy high paragon boosted rend builds. Shouldn’t have happened or at least tested different damage buffs before dropping it entirely. It isn’t hard to look at the build and say, “this is really not competitive”.
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Okay then not argument, it’s a factually true assertion. It’s still a nerf from the build tested on the PTR and quite unwelcome.
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A half regarded omission at best. The T in PTR says it all, test. Agree to disagree that the PTR is the real game.
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Yep. It’s a garbage decision that they based off of crazy high paragon boosted rend builds.
I see this argument a lot and tbh balance things around the highest clear is not that bad at all.
i did some calcs and a guy that has 67k mainstat (basically 10k paragon) vs a guy that has 22k mainstat (which is something that is not that hard to reach). The difference is just x3 times more damage.
So basically if a 10k paragon guy is clearing a 140, a guy with 22k mainstat should be able to clear a 123.
(This calc don’t consider the defensive bonus you get from paragon, so as long as you don’t have any thoughness problem you should be 17 levels down).
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I would actually agree with this if they worked towards a balance. You have to decide on a cap. And then work towards a power budget in terms of item/set importance. The never ending chase of set buffs isn’t healthy for the other sets. Keeping builds important matters but not at the cost of having other builds, or even classes in the bards case, get left behind. The cycle every four seasons of Demon hunter has one top tier set, the witch doctor has three, the barb gets none again and so on.
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It’s funny, you know, yesterday, I was watching How I met Your Mother, and there was this episode were Robin was presenting her new boyfriend to the crew; and the same night, Barney said to Ted he wanted to get her back; and Ted told Barney something that I think, fully applies to some people (That I won’t name, but I think everyone knows who it is):
“You are like a kid who throw his toy because he doesn’t want to play anymore with it, and when another kid picks it and plays with it, you suddenly want to take it back because you don’t want another kid to have fun with your old toy.”
That’s what it feels to me: some people just want to prevent others from having fun with their toys.
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Keeping builds important matters but not at the cost of having other builds, or even classes in the bards case, get left behind. The cycle every four seasons of Demon hunter has one top tier set, the witch doctor has three, the barb gets none again and so on.
This happened a lot of times because of powercreep, basically they buff some classes by a wide margin and then they forget to buff others in the same ratio, so always a class ends in the weakest spot like barbs (this happens with the sets in the same class too, with this patch basically anything that is not WW in barb case will still be in a bad spot)
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So, I have read a ton of these posts but not all. Let me see if I have this straight.
- A 10k plus paragon player barely cleared a near perfect 140GR and said he “felt” he could have cleared a 144 or 145 if he had a couple changes and few months to fish a better rift.
- A bunch of other (or maybe 3 people with 5 alt accounts each) players post in agreement that the proposed WW barb changes are too OP because they are EXACTLY or a little less than actual top current builds.
- Blizzard either A: listened and removed a major part of the build, or B: stripped out anything that could induce lag during the blizcon demos. We have no idea which, and nothing official to confirm or deny anything.
So sad, I was hoping to finally play barb again. SHAME on any person advocating a nerf to anything. Double shame on any person posting using a theoretical 144-145 (which somehow is now 146 wtf?) clear to backup his argument to nerf something.
deep down I really believe some of the people calling for it were afraid to lose a zDPs barb in their metas. so sad.
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I whole heartedly agree, the leaderboards have been dominated by other classes, and speed builds have outclassed even the fastest ww builds due to immense lack of damage. With 1200 paragon on season, augments, and ancients i can hardly even have enough toughness or damage to do 4 man t16 speed rifts, i need captain crimson’s set’s resource cost reduction to stay alive. Almost any other build, in any other class have speed variants that allow them to safely remove survivability (e.g. elusive ring, spirit guards, etc.) and still have enough damage to safely destroy everything without getting killed. WW cannot. The nature of ww making so that you have to be in the middle of elite packs, it does not allow for the speed clear as well as the damage. HAVING to use crimson’s set is not ideal, you lose chilnik’s chain, sprint options,etc. This buff put barb exactly where it needed to be. The entire communtiy, even those who do not play barb, the vast majority have welcomed and many of us, including myself and close friends on the game, have entirely been looking to play this next season solely because of the barb buffs. Please, revert this nerf. It is destroying the barb class to have chantodo’s and every other class buffed without barbarian even being close. Look at the leaderboards, barbarians have the very lowest clear, with wizard clearing over 140s, with 45 seconds to spare.
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I’m not saying the PTR is the game. I’m saying they nerfed the PTR build. Context matters. When they removed Morticks everyone called it a nerf. It was never in the game either. A nerf is simply a reduction in effect. I had it. I played it. It was fine and I expected it to go live. They took it away. I’m not happy. I still reject your semantics.
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Exactly! I don’t even mind too much the D3 is so limited to sets because the sets I think are fun enough to play a seasons journey in. But when you main a class and you have one option for a class, that blows. especially when three seasons ago the class was it a good place with multiple builds
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And that’s fine because they are semantics. Just makes my soul die a little inside when the omission of a buff, not yet released in the real game, is called a nerf. Also, testing out things can be fun! Morticks was super cool! But that was an idea that was only released after it’s effectiveness had passed it’s prime. But tests are just tests. Ideas that inevitably will change.
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