We should have gotten Mr. 10k para to run other classes as well, since it appers that 10k is what Blizz is apparently balancing classes around.
3 Likes
This I agree with completely. If part of the change to Ambo is to help mitigate rend lag, then getting rid of now pointless dust devils would also help. Blood Funnel is far more desirable with the damage moved to rend anyways.
Not an expert or anyting on Barb(or any other class) I just felt that WW + crimson felt much better for me than the other variations I tried.
And yeah running in a room after busting open the doors to find a couple of nice lasers + other affixes for you makes you realise that you are not immortal with this build 
Hardcore, obviously, has completely different toughness considerations. That said, I’ve never found my ww barb limited by toughness (in softcore). My 1300 paragon season barb can survive easily in 110s (finished a 109 without dying). This is without even using IP. Mortick’s + CC gives us a lot of toughness. My limiting factor is always damage. If you think about why we have to fish, it’s not because we suddenly become squishy.
People bashed you for creating an unnecessary argument with Gasnick. Nobody dismissed toughness buffs, as far as I remember
Read the post and see who was the guy that started that BS, i was not even present in this topic, he was trying to report me to barb community because i was a “barb hater that wanted barb nerfed” because he is mad with me for things that happened in other threads.
@JEB90
I only used the +110 GR as a soft example of when the thoughness problems could start, 110 is not by any mean a high GR anymore (not considering that people is doing +140), things start to get really bad after +120-125.
-Grandfather, tell me a story!
-Alright, go and get your storybook
-No, no, not one of those, a real story!
-A real story?
-Yes, tell me about when you were a boy!
-Well, then I shall have to take you back with me, a long way in time…
I’m really confused about what you are going on about with WW. If you are a low paragon player:
A) Why would you be using the same build as one of the highest paragon players in the game and expect to have similar results
B) If you are a low paragon player, you aren’t pushing LB spots, so why would you not just use BoM and gain the toughness
I really don’t know what you are going on about…the game is designed around an endless paragon system. If you have high paragon you gain a lot of toughness.
So if you are having toughness issues just use BoM. Also, you are exaggerating the lack of toughness of the WW/CC build. I pushed it this season on HC. If you manage your CDs the toughness is pretty decent.
Adapt to your situation is all I can say. If you have enough toughness to not get one shot, don’t use BoM. If you have toughness issues use BoM.
I see this all the time with people just copying the top LB builds. If you are pushing for LB spots you need paragon regardless. If you aren’t pushing LB spots just use BoM, don’t know why it would even matter…
If you gave WW high toughness then you really put it in the same danger zone of Vyr Chantodos. Because you would then have great mobility, toughness, and damage. It can kinda make it all around too good which is probably one of the reasons chantodos got nerfed.
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A) Why would you be using the same build as one of the highest paragon players in the game and expect to have similar results
B) If you are a low paragon player, you aren’t pushing LB spots, so why would you not just use BoM and gain the toughness
I never said that i was trying to push with WW , i was just saying that the build is squishy, which means you have to use defensive options that sacrifice damage. In fact i can’t even push with WW even if i want too, because WW causes massive lag for me in density because my pc it’s pretty bad.
I used the hardcore example because in hardcore you tend to balance things, for most SC players they will go full damage and die die die and die, so they will not even able to touch decent GR levels.
So if you are having toughness issues just use BoM. Also, you are exaggerating the lack of toughness of the WW/CC build. I pushed it this season on HC. If you manage your CDs the toughness is pretty decent.
What is pushing for you? which GR level?
I don’t understand your dismissive attitude on this as if using mantle has an inherit disadvantage. Why not take a look at the current top WW build in the rankings? It has mantle cubed and no crimson parts.
I had one of those micro tables. It collapsed under it’s own weight and my spinner fell over. Sort of like what the nerf is going to do tomy Barb.
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Because the way that WW is played will change drastically next season maybe ?. so the spot for mantle of channeling has better options.
Also you need consider that mantle of channeling is only 25% buff to damage reduction, and stacking multiple sources of damage reduction has diminishing returns, so is not like that 25% buff makes a decent difference in terms of thoughness.
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GR 115 Rank #9 (rank 10, damnit someone bumped me down) US server. Was trying to clear 117 before I ripped. The only other higher WW/CC is GR 116 (US).
My toughness was fine. Only a few mob types were dangerous: Bulls, chargers, beserkers. My damage would likely run out before my tougness does in the current WW/CC build.
Yes the lag is severe and difficult to cope with, but you do what you gotta do.
2 Likes
It’s still a flat 25% damage multiplier and 25% DR though. My suggestion was that it shall be combined with BoM, not worn alone.
Anyhow, it’s all a bit moot if they don’t add the Rend bonus back to the belt
PS: I think I’d still wear the belt and perhaps go for Cuirass on the cube slot tbh.
I tried both on the PTR and the difference is major even for bottom tier players. Mantle isn’t the way to go. Unless of course thy nerf us back to September.
I think rend with nerfed lamentation is still stronger than the current WW build we use this season, not sure how much, but the ambo pride was a big thing for WW, because is a lot stronger than the furnace or echoing fury.
I hope they bring back at least some part of the % damage of lamentation, because remove a multiplicative buff is just way to much nerf.
I agree, at least most of the damage moved to rend from what I understand. But without the % buff it doesn’t feel as much as an upgrade, more like a necessary build change to min-max.
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From 130 current WW clear to 133 if the nerf goes through, so almost nothing.
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If we get the 200% back from lamentation there is definitely a chance that your dps would outlast your toughness at low paragon and especially worth noting for HC. I think that’s fine. No builds should have everything and having weaknesses is something to overcome and I think it’s good for the game.
But like I said…you just adapt. if your toughness is too low and your dps says you can go higher, switch to BoM. As you are pushing and gaining more paragon you can adjust your build accordingly.
Yes he is still better with the 200% remove because he don’t depend on AD now but people are crying because we finally got a new fun way for farm exp and leave alone this stupid rat run but without the buff rat run is like 60% more efficient so their is no deal about what playing in meta group.
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No builds should have everything and having weaknesses is something to overcome and I think it’s good for the game.
Probably that is one of the reason because devs nerfed lamentation, high movement speed, good DPS, best speedfarm build, the only weakness is the thoughness for pushing really high.
The problem is what happens if somehow WW actually ends doing 146 like darkpatator said. because in that case the nerf will drop next season.