It is such a defeatist way of thinking tbh.
“Shouldn’t leave my house, because I dont know what might happen”.
There is no guarantees that Blizzard are capable of making a good D2 Remaster. Obviously. But that should never be a reason not to try.
Over the years so many people, some of them are likely among the people anxiously waiting for D2R to release in a few days, kept saying D2R should not happen, because Blizzard would just make another WC3R or D3.
Yet here we are. Not everything has to go badly.
If people like ShadowAegis, with all his fearmongering and lack of will to jump into the unknown, had his way, D2R would not even exist in the first place.
They may not be able to look at or anticipate every consequence of their actions, but I’m pretty sure they would get one THAT obvious.
We’re talking about development after launch here. Smart money on Cyberpunk says it was rushed to launch against the devs’ wishes.
Incorrect. I’ve said multiple times that everyone who wants personal loot is probably not on the exact same page, nor is there any guarantee the devs would implement it that exact way if we were.
However, there’s a lot of room between that and your worse-case, devs-are-idiots, massive-drop-rate-increase scenario.
I don’t “want to believe” the devs aren’t complete morons. I “do believe” the devs aren’t complete morons.
Ploot. It’s pretty obvious just by the name what the system actually means. However, I see active attempts to misrepresent what it means so people who might support it do not instead. Really just common sense how it should be implemented but then I see stupid ideas thrown out there like “let’s copy the items for every player in game” just to misrepresent it.
Sad really that people lack so much imagination that they can’t envision such a basic system. However, it’s also malicious opposition in nature so I know what people are really opposing it for. Since nobody who plays the game legit really should be opposing it.
If Blizz’ D3 team would have remastered D2R, I’d have probably felt the same back then. But these VV chaps seems to have brought some fresh blood with them and look to have done a fine job with it. Makes me feel a bit more hopeful about D4, actually.
Fingers crossed, they keep doing such a good job, and help D2R evolve into an even much better game than before.
Ya but he at least sees the idea for what it really is. Which is more than I can say for the majority of the people still posting on the forums at this point. xD
I’m confused. You say we’re misrepresenting, yet when I point out Shadow’s interpretation is really the misrepresentation, you seem to think it’s the real idea even though in your response to me, you called his -
Pretty sure the “other side” coined the term as a knock against it, but it was thrown around so much people just went with that term in the end.
Yes there are multiple ways of implementing it, but if you have actually been with the conversation since the beginning you would not be confused as to what people are actually asking for.
He has shown again and again that he has no understanding of how ploot could work.
Heck, he seemed to think players would have a 8% chance to win a roll.
I made a post to help define what ploot meant. It was fairly unanimous that is simply meant auto allocated loot drops on a short timers before becoming available to anyone to pick up.
The only people that thought it meant something different are the people that continue to argue against it. It was obvious (because they said as much) that their definition of ploot was given as a fear mongering tactic to make it seem like we all just want increased drop rates.
No, instead I can act like I never even thought that ploot could implemented in a way that would increase the drop. After all you and others are schooling me that it cannot happen. Then I can say it is just nothing but a bunch of smoke up my nose even though it is reality.
Look I was looking it up not under software I was looking it up under video game remaster.
I am only saying that your definition is not the one that matters here it is VV/Blizz’s definition that matters. They show their definition by how they have made D2R.
Look I am just saying that ploot being implemented the way the majority would want it isn’t the only way it can be implemented. Even though you and others like you think otherwise. You think that if it is implemented it will be just like you and others have asked for it.
You wanted a quote and I gave you one. It was a discussion talking about how ploot could be done. Where one player would be chosen to receive all of the party’s loot. With an 87.5% chance of getting nothing that could mean long streaks of getting nothing at all which wouldn’t be good.
He is saying what he feels will likely happen. Players like your getting your way in D2R with ploot. Then you find a new shiny and leave never to return. Which means the ones left behind have to deal with what they never wanted.
Well now this is a first, you do know that it can turn out that way. Saying that it is possible is all that I was wanting to hear from you. This way you are saying there are more ways to implement ploot than the one way the majority suggest.
Look at that time we didn’t even know that VV was doing the remaster. If we knew that then things might be different. I was just echoing the concerns of others that were concerned about a full in house remaster.
Also this is running down the road of all or nothing fallacy. Where I have to want ploot to want all other changes. Or ploot has to be in at launch or close to it or VV/Blizz would have to remove all other changes other than the video and audio changes.
Even though they might know the consequences but if it is acceptable to the other ways mentioned. Meaning it is the lesser of two evils then that is what they will choose. It could come out like you want but morph into what you don’t want.
I am using it as an example of what happens when a company doesn’t think of the consequences of their actions. Not testing it on consoles like they should’ve along with a whole lot of other things is what lead to the problems that the game had at launch.
As I said earlier it might be the lesser of two evils to them.
It is not about being morons it is about what is the lesser of two evils. And if they feel that the worse case is the lesser of two evils then that is the one that they will choose. That is if the initial ploot doesn’t morph into the worse case situation.
It’s very, very unlikely to happen the way you’re advocating it will.
Again, incorrect. And that’s not what you’re saying. You were specifically saying if it was done that it would be done in the worst way possible.
And you actually think there’s a chance of THAT being done? Come on, dude.
Then they don’t have to play with personal loot. They can keep playing FFA.
Your water heater could explode tomorrow. So what?
Ironic that you bring up fallacies when you keep using strawmans. Nobody has said you need to want personal loot to want other changes. Just… why?
Again, I’m pretty sure they would know THAT consequence. It’s rather obvious and the forums have been all over it.
So you’re saying we could have a scenario where they’re implementing “boss drops 5 drops, everyone gets 5 drops” because the alternative is to implement something even worse? This was already your worse-case scenario. What do you have that’s even worse than that? And why the flip would they do that rather than… oh, I don’t know… nothing?
Sure, but the argument you were addressing was the developers not thinking of the consequences. So it wasn’t a very good example.
And as I said above, what the bleep would this other hypothetical evil be, and why would they choose this over not doing either of them?
You don’t even have a plausible scenario for when that would be the case! This is all hypothetical bullbleep.
Who said an increased drop rate can’t happen? Nobody here is asking for an increase in drop rates. In fact, I think most of the people here agree that we shouldn’t have an increase in drop rates. You are fighting the wrong fight with the wrong people here.
Video games are software.
If they showed their definition by how they have made D2R, then they would add ploot.
I can’t speak for what others want. I know you’re arguing with me over something I don’t want. If people start asking for ploot and an increase in drop rates, we can argue against that on the same side.
You didn’t give me a quote, you copied a link. A quote is what you did to reply to me.
Like I said, if that happens then the ploot thing will quietly die as they all jump ship to the new shiny. If all the ploot people leave and all that’s left is FFA players, then what exactly is it that you will have to deal with? You won’t have to “deal with it” because you don’t even have to toggle it on.
No, I’m saying the fearmongering is a ridiculous argument because making good decisions based on “what if’s” leads to stagnation which leads to death.
And wasn’t this your first claim a few months back? Don’t remake D2 because they will ruin it? Now that they are remaking D2 and keeping the original around, you do want them to remake it… only you want it done only how you want it done. If you didn’t want D2R in the first place, why not just keep playing D2Lod?
Again you don’t understand, if VV//Blizz wanted to actually add ploot they couldn’t just take any suggestion on it or whatever is the one that the majority wants (majority from not only the forums but places like Reddit, Twitter, etc…).
They have to look carefully at each suggestion’s pros and cons. Then they would choose the one with the least cons. If that way is the one that increases the drop rates then that is what will happen.
Silly me, thanks for opening up my eyes. Just the generic software would be sufficient because all software is identical. After all what is considered a remaster of Microsoft Word or and older version of Microsoft Excel is the same as a video game. So whatever definition fits all other software fits it as well. That is very narrow minded and I am sure you can see why. Simply because those two Microsoft products might not need a lot of changes, whereas a video game might need more changes in order to make it a good remaster.
Now it is back to the all or nothing fallacy. Just because they made some changes they must add ploot. I am sure you know they don’t have to do that.
Again they have to go with all of the pros and cons of each different way of adding ploot and they would no doubt choose the one with the least amount of cons (evils).
I did give you a quote and explained what it was all about. A discussion where I asked him/her if he/she was saying that when loot drops that all of the party’s loot would randomly go to one person and he/she said yes. Saying yes to that then it means he is not talking about a short allocation PoE type of loot or anything else like it. In fact, since he has like other ones that would make it hard to figure out which one Shadout would want.
But the problem remains is that everyone else has to deal with a feature that they never wanted. That is not fair by any means. An addition that was a waste of time and money. Time and money that could’ve been used somewhere else that would’ve improved the experience. Let’s say that instead of adding something that would allow mods to function that don’t have to rely on TCP/IP is dropped just to appease you and others by adding ploot. Then what would you have to say.
You know that it is possible, you just don’t like to admit it because you are admitting that I have a point, no matter how low of a chance there is for it to happen.
When it was leaked that D2 would be remastered did we know that it was VV that would be doing it. No, we didn’t know that at all. We didn’t know until later on. Thinking it would be an in house remaster was what was worrying a lot of players and rightfully so considering Warcraft 3 reforged.
I have to ask how dense are you?
When have things been implemented the way people asked for??
Look at D3, team PvP ready at release.
The it was soon after release.
We got brawling.
Some people asked for set and legendaries to be better than at release.
We got sets with like 50 times the damage, and are mandatory for most
builds, yes LoD can be used for some builds.
People didn’t like the Auction House, RMAH at least, so they
got rid of all trading.
People were starving for content for D3, and new projects, we got a
“Don’t you guys have phones”, at Blizzcon.
Ya, I am sure if they introduce Ploot, it will be just like
the one people are asking for…Not!!!
Science tells me my density is close to 1000 kg/m^3 but since your reply is mostly an insult and fear mongering I don’t think you care for a proper answer.
I think it’s you that doesn’t understand. Ploot would be the loot version of auto gold pickup. VV/Blizz has already taken steps to accommodate people that can’t spam the click button.
Agreed. Microsoft never “remastered” MS Office. They may have added features, but that doesn’t constitute a remastered claim… but at least you acknowledge that remastering includes “changes”.
No, now it is me telling you to stop using the word “remaster” to justify not making any changes. Adding a loot version of the auto gold pickup toggle isn’t “all or nothing”. That’s just the typical hyperbole.
And if any of them posted here, we would both argue against it together. Saying they exist somewhere out in the aether so you must fight all changes is hyperbole.
Now your just being obtuse. A quote is where you select text and click the quote button. You copied a link for me to dig through, which I’m not doing.
How is selecting “FFA Loot” as your default for game generation “having to deal with it”? Once set, you will never have to set it again unless you want ploot for some reason. Quit making it out to be more than it is.
I’m not going to argue against making the game because something bad may happen. I will argue for or against specific changes. You are arguing against “A” because you think it could lead to “B”… even though “B” can happen without “A” ever being implemented. That’s a flawed approach.
Would it have mattered? You didn’t know VV from a hole in the wall. Fact is, you were against it out of fear. That fear was unfounded despite all the changes that have been made thus far. You are still fearmongering changes.
