You might believe that but would be shocked to see that it does have cons, just one that you didn’t see or consider.
Yes again if you go buy your personal definition or the purist definition of remaster means zero changes. But that is not the definition that VV/Blizz goes by and that is what we have to go by.
You don’t have to have played something to know whether or not it was a disaster at launch. I didn’t play it and knew it was a disaster at launch. Blizz promised that you could choose to play either reforged or the original. But that was a lie because all you can play is reforged. Along with other problems that happened that I just don’t remember atm. If you would do a little research like typing Warcraft 3 Reforged at launch in google or youtube you might come up with something very interesting. I just searched for that and here is a youtube video describing what happened to Warcraft 3 Reforged’s launch.
This makes it clear why it is easy to do things like this. All it takes is just a few minutes and the right websites to get what you want.
But the whole point of it is that if added it will either morph into increased drop rates or it will morph into being the only type of loot system in D2R.
You just don’t understand what it would be a like for a player that never played the original D2. They play D2R with ploot and that is the only loot system they use, even if FFA still exists. Then they go and buy D2:LOD the original and play it and get a rude awakening. They see FFA is the original experience along with ploot not even being part of the original. This is what the ones that don’t want ploot in the game are thinking about.
So again this isn’t just a concern what you and others like you are asking for now. It also includes what it could morph into. All because it was added players could wind up saying okay VV/Blizz now it is time to add this, and this, and this, till the game morphs into something that cannot be truly called D2 at all even though ti has the title of D2R.
You don’t like the fact that Blizz isn’t holding your hand as far as loot goes. FFA is too hard on us.
If you truly have respect for other players then why bother to ask for ploot. Because clearly it would ruin the original D2 experience. Anyone that never played D2 plays D2R with only ploot enabled. Then they buy the original and try to find the ploot toggle and see it is not there. They get a rude awakening of what FFA is all about.
Shouldn’t be a problem as long as you have a group that is agreeable to the rules. It does happen more times with D2:LOD than you might seem to think. Meaning even though the world’s morals have went downhill. Still there are honest people that will play by the rules they agree to play by.
First of all a lot of players don’t bother to visit the forums or keep up to date with a game. So if you have it where the items in ploot are greyed out they might think that means all of them are low quality or items with sockets. That is why it might not be a good idea to have them appear grey. That is one con right there, I am sure if I thought about it long enough I would be able to come up with more cons.
Secondly those players are more apt to ask why they can’t pick up those items unless there is more than just them being greyed out. Where they also have text that says they cannot pick them up yet.
You might think it wouldn’t be hard to remove an extra loot system that was added. But it might be harder and cost more than what you think it will. Unless you are a top notch AAA game developer and know all of the ins and outs of development.
Agreed, this is something that the plooters don’t think about. The original engine might not be compatible with ploot being added.
It’s interesting they were patching TFT up till reforged. They should continue patching here as well. Remastering D2 should not hinder further patching.
It is nice that you started your post with “False.”
With participation argument we go back to beginning:
Yes it is I am arguing against option which is superior to any other option.
Never wrote anything like that, however if you go through all the ploot threads you will find plenty explanations.
So basically it removes “multi” from multiplayer.
This have no reference whatsoever to the quoted part. Anyway yes I did. Ploot toggle creates game mode which have same exp as currently best exp mode, but with guaranteed drops. Next time when you ask the same question I will just ask you to read all the posts again.
If my argument has no sense then what you stating is correct then ploot have no purpose in the game.
No we dont, we have discussion about implementing a change or not. The option you mentioning is not in the equation right now. Your statement would be only correct if Blizzard implemented ploot option and I asked them to remove it.
It is actually irrelevant, if you want the change then reasons why you want it,
dont change the fact that you want it in any way.
You clearly have no idea what my argument was.
This is literally what every argument for ploot is.
I explained many times why you cant completely opt out, at least once in direct reply to you, on top of that you dont have any authority to tell me what I should care, or not care about.
It has no relevance - gold is gold, doesnt matter which pile you pickup, however it does matter what items you pick up.
So now you are the one wanting actually remove option from players?
You are incorrect - since every roll is separate, you can as well get all the items in ploot.
If someone manage to grab all the items in FFA game, odds are he is not the leecher.
And for leecher it would be better to join ploot game with no gear whatsoever and empty inventory and just stay safe behind his teammates, while picking loot that game assigned to him, without ever getting in danger. Contrary to FFA where same leecher would have to be next to mob at the moment of his death. So one thing we agree on is this:
Why would a leecher join a ploot game where his items leeched is capped vs. joining a FFA game where he can get all the drops with a script? You make no sense.
I played Diablo 1. I played Diablo2. I played Diablo3.
I stopped playing Diablo2 when Blizzard neglected the servers and they were littered with bots, hacks, and constant crashes. I am an active HC player and I played Diablo2 for more than 10 years and I insist that I stopped playing because I was FORCED to stop playing due to the status of the servers.
I understand and respect what you are asking for and I will not be the one to tell you to go to another game or what you should do. But if you want my opinion, asking for ploot seems like someone who has not understood the true essence of Diablo 2.
You would destroy the market, you would take away the emotion from many parts of the game, you would stop contemplating what other players have taken, you would reduce the value and importance of the chat, and among many other things, you would end the mechanic of breaking the mouse when a boss goes to dying, which, contrary to what it may seem to you, offers a lot of excitement, suspense and intrigue.
If you want your own loot you can always go play a game in which you are alone or with your friends and you distribute the objects to each other, do you want your own loot? The game gives you the option, do not enter with unknown people to play and you will get it!
And finally, there is something a bit hypocritical in your words. It frustrates you that you are “forced” to play without ploot, something you want. Implementing the ploot would mean one of the following two options: Forcing everyone to play with ploot or having to break an important part of the game, redesign it and implement it from scratch, something that essentially goes against the politics of Resurrecte → Do not touch the main mechanics of the game <-.
Have you ever wondered why after so many years they decided to re-release this ARPG? Because people loved him just the way he was, it’s one thing to add more runic words, have you automatically pick up gold, or increase your inventory - these are changes that don’t affect the mechanics themselves. The ploot, I’m sorry to tell you but yes.
This argument seems out of place to me. Why would someone who has never played the original go and play it after D2R. Further, you say they would be in for a rude awakening indicating it is just that, rude.
Yes its a coveted system by some, but its not the root of D2 that people make it out to be. It doesn’t need to be forced on everyone to still enjoy that method of play.
That’s the thing. People asking for options are not “all or nothing.” I will still play with real life friends and by myself. I’ll just limit my exposure to people like you.
I don’t know, maybe there are simply folks which have such “madness” suggestion if it comes down to ploot, maybe people simply skip over arguments and don’t read properly, or only read the titles and get mad already due in their head they let run their imagination wild, and compare it with diablo 3. I don’t know what it actually is, but it’s really tiresome and bothering to have a debate over this, when all people don’t properly understand and get what plooters want.
It wouldn’t because (and i don’t know how many times i already have repeated this, in this forum ALONE) a well done Ploot does neither mean it should increase droprate, nor it should replace FFA at all. A simple toggle-option when you create a lobby, where people who looking for lobbies can filter them. No better Droprates, no cutting of FFA - simply let the player decide for themself what they prefer. In that way it wouldn’t effect you and any other player, because you still can open up and stick to FFA lobbies, like you would anyway… and Plooters can finally enjoy the Game how they want to experience. Otherwise i can guarantee you majority of them would either leave the game at some point or stick to solo / private play… so it’s not even splitting the community. Rather i’d argue the opposite, if you allow this feature for plooters, you might even encourage them to try FFA at some point and maybe they might enjoy it from time to time… but if you force it to them it isn’t helpfull at all.
Irrelevant, because if it comes down to enjoyment and experience everyone can speak only for themself. You might have fun with it, I played Diablo 2 on and off since 21 years, and one aspect which ruined MP for me almost everytime was FFA. I get why some people enjoy it, but you can’t force me to like it. You simply can’t especially when you see other Games (not talking about D3 with their smartloot nonsense) which show that it works fine for both sides, if introduced properly. This Argument sound like one of this “Hardcore”-Player Arguments, which also argue Hardcore should be the way to be played because it gives you a better experience, should we know cut Softcore because of that?
I disagree, because you kinda devalue chat and stuff already with this stubborn attitidue of being against a optional feature which wouldn’t affect anyone if introduced properly. Do you really think that all the plooters here - and i’ve to point people should also stop assuming all of them are newbies which only play D3 because i can guarantee you there are also quite alot veterans in it, do really want to interact with people anymore with such toxic behaviour.
I atleast don’t - i know the forum itself isn’t a reference of how many bad apples actually play the game, but i simply don’t want to risk to interact with even one of “some” individuals which i encountered here. Simply no… if i even would play public mp at all (which 99% won’t be the case if it stays FFA Only) you won’t see me in chat in all. Why should i be nice to people who purposefully sabotage my experience for a small optional feature. You might have an easier time if you folks wouldn’t be so against it and blizzard is allowed to implement it, because that you would encouarge me to interact with you folks.
Don’t get me wrong there are suggestions where i would agree with which might be bad, i truly do, but this whole anti-ploot is absolute madness.
Again irrelevant and is not up to you… as long as FFA stays as an option everyone can experience said excitement and such… but also let others enjoy the game as well.
But that’s actually the whole problem of it. Folks here argue about what a remastered and a remake is - and except the clear discrepancy to a remake the fact that it is developed completly from the scratch (which D2R isn’t), Remastered have a wide range of approaching it. And there are quite many Remastered which adds QoL, small Features or even new content. And from my personal experience this are quite often better liked than the barebones remastered with a small upcscale graphics and still asking for fullprice.
However - to get back to my major gripe about the argument, that’s what anti-plooter don’t get at all, because they argue now “well that’s how blizzard define remastered”. No they don’t blizzard or specific VV is open enough to add ploot, heck they even tweeted it - the only reason why they decided against it (for now) is because some whiny anti-plooters backlashed at them one Twitter.
So i’d argue Blizzard is more open to changes and additions then you folks want to make it sound.
This is a facetious argument. To my knowledge, no one has said the everyone in FFA use scripts; however, if 5% of “players” are botters/pickit cheats/auto-clickers/macro users, then it will affect one out of three 8 players games on average.
How is it a L2P issue if others are using cheats where in many cases, you would not even know it? It is not L2P, but the quoted argument is hyperbole that lacks reality.
As long as nobody sees it, it should be fair to assume that there is no con.
Otherwise you are basically damned to do nothing. Because there might be “a con that nobody thought of” to literally everything.
Sometimes you just have to be wild and crazy. (After considering all possibilities and making sure there are no cons)
Because tossing people into a toxic click-battle is not respect. It is careless.
Why?
Why would they? You can simply tell them how awesome it is. Just mention all that excitement.
Woot? I thought your claims that “it will ruin the original d2 experience” and “all new players will play ploot” were wild. But that people will be buying the original when already owning the remaster that allows to switch views and even play it is even more wild.
I’ll give it a 3 on the chuckle-score.
Rofl.
I literally just thought about it and you quoted it.
How can you even make that claim.
A: X
B: “A: X” You never say X!
Also quite hack-y. Please. Dont.
Why?
Why?
Why?
Why?
… to you. And guess what. You can still do that! FFA loot is still there.
So older game engines don’t have any limits huh. Mr. All knowing programming guru tell me how that is, because I have heard other companies say that can’t do x because of limits to a game engine. According to you there is no way there could be compatibility issues. No way you could have a bug that will cause problems similar to the gold dupe bug of D3 right. All because of compatibility issues.
Oh what happens when you go to legacy. Is ploot still there, even though the original D2:LOD never had it? Does it cause problems with FFA in some way. Remember all it takes is one mistake or even compatibility issues to really mess things up.
Not if it changes the game into a monster that is no longer recognizable as D2, even though it still carries D2R as a title.
They would have to ask questions either in the group or on the forums. Drawing them to the forums where they might not want to go.
He really doesn’t have to do anything or even have great gear. He could have almost his entire inventory cleared just to pick up loot. But your confirmation bias blinds your eyes on that point.
I like how you think and agree. I believe it will cause more problems than it is worth. But their confirmation bias blinds their eyes to seeing it.
I can understand and agree with you on everything except for one. I need to ask how does it destroy the market. I know that the ones here asking for it in this thread will say we are not asking for everyone in the group to get the same amount of drops. The same amount of gear drops it is just randomly assigned to players in the party.
Even though they no doubt can do that, they don’t want to use those tools. They only want their hero ploot to do it for them.
I do believe that the true goal of plooters is to get rid of FFA as it exists now. Where at first, if they get it that way, they get a time allocated ploot. Then after getting that with FFA. They would tell VV/Blizz that you gave us that. Now the players that love FFA still can get it in ploot they just have to wait till the time ends to loot whatever is left. So FFA is still there, sure not the way it original exists but they wouldn’t care.
Then the next step will be players will complain they are not getting enough loot as compared to when FFA existed so they would ask for ploot to give loot to all. Possibly increasing the drops up to eight times the amount. Meaning that a well coordinated team of eight players could outdo a solo player in getting loot. Making D2R a multiplayer first game instead of solo first as it is now.
You might have someone that would want to play with mods for D2 while D2R still might not support them. So they buy the original and fire it up looking for ploot on the servers and find it doesn’t exist at all. When it could be the only loot option in D2R. So they complain that they don’t have the original D2 experience and maybe want a refund if it is in the period of time they can still get one for D2R.
Plooters asking for their option, then you would have others that would want their options whatever it might be for would say they have to be there as well. It doesn’t matter what happens to the game if it is just an option. So you could wind up with D2R loaded with check boxes just to start a game.
Why would someone that asks for something like ploot, due to the fact they want the game to hold their hands in getting the loot go and play FFA games. That makes no sense at all. Players that avoid FFA loot entirely know why they are avoiding it and won’t play in groups because of it. Or if they do they do it to find those that they can play with in special groups that will agree to share the loot and actually do just that when they play.
Just because ploot would exist in D2R would you every play FFA loot? I highly doubt it, not even to advertise it because players would be able to see the checkbox and ask what it is for if needed.
Did your confirmation bias blind you when the person said you would stop contemplating what the other players have taken.
Hardcore doesn’t touch the loot system at all so that is irrelevant, a poor choice in illustration.
What just because the person doesn’t instantly agree with everything said. So it is one person posts a suggestion and everyone agrees no matter what or you are devaluing the chat in a game that isn’t out yet. It is insane to think that way and I am sure you know it.
Oh so now it is an all or nothing fallacy huh. Either swallow your pride and use the tools give to get the loot you want or just suffer the consequences.
Oh now you really believe that 99% of the players want ploot. Well you are sadly mistaken on that point. No, in game chat doesn’t revolve around you being there. So they won’t miss you one bit.
Now you are being a hypocrite because you said you don’t play FFA games at all because of how they work. But just because ploot exist you would play it. That makes no sense at all.
Your confirmation bias blinds you to what others are telling you. Instead of putting yourself in their shoes and understanding them. You just attack what they are saying or ignore them entirely. That is not how you win an argument at all. That turns people off
How long will it stay that way? What prevents others from coming in and saying FFA exists in ploot due to the time allocated ploot. So FFA can be completely removed as an option. All those that love FFA loot would have to do is wait till the loot that is left that they cannot pickup goes FFA.
Then you could have players complaining about not getting enough loot in multiplayer. Asking for everyone to get roughly the same amount of drops.
How would you feel if a group of players wanted FFA loot in a game you love that only has ploot that isn’t BoA.
So actions don’t speak a thousand words, like the idiom goes. I say actions do talk loader than words because it shows what remaster means to that person. I am sure you would say differently if there is anything else that is remastered that is not where the definition is like it is for video games. Or maybe a different video game remaster entirely. Then you might say no way to adding something that would be almost like us saying no to ploot.
Just because they are open to more changes they still have to make sure that they don’t lose the authenticity of the original D2 experience. Totally changing core mechanics which ploot would do. No, they didn’t decide not to do it for now because of the backlash of twitter. They no doubt know that not only it isn’t needed but also not good for the original D2 experience.
I say it is time for you and the rest like you to swallow your pride and use the tools given to get the loot you want. Instead of trying to force ploot in public games.
Public games is not for ones like you. Heck they aren’t for me either for different reasons other than that. If it was just a loot issue then I might play FFA multiplayer to get the better experience then solo to get better loot. The problem I have is with the PvP. The only way to avoid gankers is to either play private multiplayer with password protected games or play solo.
As long as it doesn’t morph into some monster that isn’t recognizable as D2 even though it would still carry the D2R title then we will be fine.
Means learn to use the tools given instead of trying to force FFA players to have to contend with ploot in public games existing as an option.
Everyone like you is too proud to play private games with friends in password protected games where you share the loot or play solo mf runs to get better loot.
You are thinking that ploot is guaranteed to be added. You might be wrong about that.
Great idea, going for an all or nothing fallacy. Where VV/Blizz has to add every suggestion for every one of their games that has been suggested. Don’t bother looking at the cons at all. Look at all of them as the greatest thing since sliced bread. No suggestion could be so bad it would destroy the game. In fact according to this line of reasoning all of them would make the game so great that billions of people would play the game right.
Now what is it about understanding weighing the pros and the cons of all suggestions and issues in life.
Here is a good example of what can happen if no one bothers to learn the cons of anything that exists. Keeping a blind eye or watering them down.
Take D3’s Gears of the Dreadlands Hungering Arrow Demon Hunter build here are the pros.
Lots of cool variants
Strong Season Starter
Top Solo farming build
Fast and Smooth Gameplay
Not looking at the cons at all or not having them as part of the guide. Players hit a brick wall in pushing and start complaining. Well those that know the cons would say that is part of the cons.
Everything in life has its pros and cons. The same is true in video games.
Put yourself in their shoes, would you love it if your favorite classic ploot only game is getting remastered adds FFA just because other players want it as an option. Saying that ploot only is bad that FFA will make even ploot better.
Did you forget that mods cannot be played with D2R. So they might want to know what it is like to play d2 with Median, Path of Diablo, etc…
Also how would the fact that ploot is there affect FFA loot when legacy is toggled. Does the legacy where there should be no changes still retain ploot.
Oh so you don’t think that older game engines do not have limitations. After all D2’s original engine is running underneath the game the whole time.
Now you are just being sillier than usual.
Have you heard of patch notes? And in-game tutorials/tooltips.
You cant even enter a Ploot game without consciously choosing to do so. No surprises to be had.
Do you also want to remove HC because some imaginary person might manage to play HC without understanding that they lose their character on death? #StopTheHandholding
As said, you dont have to remove it. Just disable the toggle. And yes, that would be pretty easy.
Of course it is. It is just pretty irrelevant.
Btw, Blizzard themselves keep saying they have discussed, and seemingly are still discussing Ploot for D2R. Why would they do that if it was impossible to add?
It would not affect the market.
No reason you would. That would stay just as relevant as in FFA.
Also zero reason that would happen.
I have the perfect solution here.
You need to complete Normal mode on one character before you can make or join Ploot games.
Straw!
Since it would not harm the game in any way, I’d obviously be quite fine with it.
D4 should have optional FFA.
Originally in D2/D2:Lod, I played only closed battlenet where likely 90% of my time was solo, because I did not want to deal with multiplayer shenanigans.
Considering you were wrong about me, I think it is fair to say that you are most likely wrong about “Everyone like” me.
Yeah, because that’s exactly what I said… My, how does mentioning that adding a method to allocate a drop isn’t computationally intensive equate to “older game engines don’t have limits” ? That’s one heck of a misdirection.
Companies often say they can’t do “x” because of limits because: 1) they can’t do “x” because of limits, and 2) they can’t do “x” because it won’t make enough money to do “x”. This isn’t confusing. Well, it shouldn’t be confusing…
I never mentioned “compatibility issues” at all, especially since it’s such a broad term it’s rarely helpful. Compatibility between what, exactly?
I merely mentioned that implementing pLoot isn’t a question of “can they do it” it - it should be more of a question of “should they do it - and if so, then how?”
For the record, I’m agnostic on pLoot, leaning more towards “don’t change a thing.” However, if they threw a 2 second Timed Allocation Drop - then FFA, I could live with that easily.
And if they offered 2 completely separate realms (1 FFA, 1 pLoot), I’m not 100% sure which one I’d spend more time with, depending on the actual pLoot design (there are many).
plotters having some serious L2P issues