Firebird Wizard is Fair and Balanced

Why continue to argue a mute point? You are wrong. Get over it. And again it isn’t the set, its the mechanics on console. You are say otherwise as much as you want, yet on pc, it isn’t even close to how it is on console, so why are you still arguing over it? Have you ever tried to play on pc? The game lagging and frame rate is the only reason the twisters do more damage, otherwise they wouldn’t. Why else do you think hosting on new xbox doesn’t run into the same issues and runs near real time. It literally lagging the game and calculations which in turn make the set do more damage. That isn’t an intended mechanic, it is a broken one.

I don’t need to see an inferior run on GR139 when I cleared a 150 solo early last season. Ethereals bring more damage to the table and pretty much nothing else changed from the build.

FB set is not op, mechanics on console. If you feel the need to argue, buy a pc and try FB on pc out for yourself. It is not even close to how strong it is on console. Why? Game mechanics —> not a set. Insanity will not change the outcome.

This is the console discussion forums, correct?

I have never stated that the FB set itself is OP. Its like you’re interpreting my points as such; an error in your perception.

I have only ever discussed the other mechanics that make the FB wiz on console OP. You have actually agreed to that. How the FB wiz performs on PC is a mute point. This is console and console discussion.

I did find your attempt to belittle amusing though. “I don’t need to see an inferior run on gr 139 when I cleared a 150 solo”. Not sure why what clear you have done matters as it pertains to the current discussion. The 139 clip was a demonstration of what makes the FB wiz on console OP. It could have been a gr 140 or a gr 145 or a gr 150, the end result is the same. No other build is soloing gr 139+ without augments, period.

Yes, it is other mechanics that make the twister wiz stronger on console. Some of those mechanics apply to all twister builds. Some of them only apply to the FB wiz (specifically magic weapon ignite). If a mechanic is unique to a build, then it stands to say that mechanic is included in describing said build. FB on console is OP with just ignite alone.

Not once have I made any declaration that the FB set itself needs a nerf. Reevaluate your position and your perception of my position before going off half cocked.

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I’m a bit confused so can we get clarity? The only reason why Twister anything Wizard is OP on console is due to the lag it creates in the game engine and thus benefits from being out more than it should giving more dps.

That was how it has been for ages, what has supposedley changed for that not to be the case and why then is Firebirds Twister Wizard utterly mega OP on Console?

Or have I picked up this discussion wrong?

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I’ll chime in here because I’m a LONG time player but far removed from the PC version. Been console only the last few years.

Played on the PS4 until January. My sons play on switch and XBox, and I’ve been PS5 since January.

The “new” FB wizard is OP on console, and not because of twister.

Without watching YouTube videos or checking Icy, this season was the easiest one I’ve ever done in any form. I managed to finish a FB set at the same time as unlocking the season set. Using the two handed ethereal staff and just a vanilla disintegrate, I’m clearing GR 90 in 8 minutes, no augmentation, no ancient set pieces. I finished all season missions by Para 550, solo…

Lag doesn’t seem to play a part. I find using twisters on the PS4 to be unappealing from a lag perspective. PS5- nothing lags.

The FB set bonuses when coupled with non-Meta skills, still is destroying everything.

I’m 48 years old and don’t push GR or leaderboards. This is casual killing for me.

This FB set required no alternate builds for any task except the obvious level 45 no set part. FB is OP, regardless of the console you use and even the skills.

For entertainment, I’ll goof around with a mirror image or twister modification for giggles and revisit this thread later this week.

But that is true on PC…we are talking Console here. FB Wiz with Ethereal is insane on any platform but it is the interaction of Twisters that makes it utterly OP on console.

Yes, but people are misunderstanding that they think it is the set, but its the mechanics on console. I said in my op on FB that it is slightly over-performing compared to others sets on PC and that people are wanting a nerf to the set, but they need to fix mechanics, to fix the build. Some people think otherwise and I’m not quite sure why, but it is incorrect. The game is balanced around PC and not console, so people wanting a nerf to set isn’t going to fix the issue and I also stated if it were to get a nerf, 4000 on six piece is more than enough on console to still do easy high end content while abusing game mechanics. Some people still feel the need to argue over incorrect information. :roll_eyes:

So Homer, all twister builds have always benifited from frame rate drop in group play; however, the FB wiz is capable of creating frame rate drop 5 times worse than group play while in a solo game by running magic weapon ignite. That rune on magic weapon technically could be used on any twister build, but not likely going to happen because of defense issues.

That being said, MW ignite applies a DoT to enemies and can stack multiple times. This causes a significant load on the processor. It can be achieved with only 10 enemies. The frame rate drop essentially brings the game timer to a screeching hault while still allowing the wizard to cast twisters. At normal frame rate of 30 seconds and an attack dpeed of 2 aps, a wiz can only have 12 total twister active at any hiven time. With the forced frame drop, the FB twister wiz can get 100+ twisters out. See the problem? While frame rate is dropped, the twisters essentially dont move either, allowing the wizard to stack 50 or so teisters on a single elite, even out in the open. The linked video above demonstrates this. The issue of frame drop normally exists only in high density and or in group play. The FB wiz is able to achieve this in solo.

Again, I make no claim that the FB set needs nerfed. I do however believe the FB twister wiz on console is significantly OP because of above stated ability to run MW ignite to force significant frame drop.


Who is arguing for a nerf to the FB set?

That is exactly my view and stance, I thought you were saying differently in that the lag was not the issue why FB Twister is OP.

FB may need a slight nerf on PC but on Console that nerf will not affect the builds massive OP due to the above interaction you mention.

Thanks for the clarification of the issue.

I was initially on “team nerf”, because a FB set is too easy to destroy everything with on a console. This is regardless of twister, MW etc. I’m now seeing the OP discussion logic.

I can’t say though that using a PS5 would still recreate this situation with 20+ twisters running. I’ll give it a go this week and see what happens though.

I doubt in any event that anything can be done about it unless they implement a hard cap on the number of twisters that can be proc’ed.

It’s a game engine issue and not hardware related, it still happens on PS5 and PS4 Pro with SSD.

You. You have said previously in other posts that twisters are intended mechanics for console. You also stated multiple issues on console for twisters, but there is only one causing the issues. The software cannot handle the calculations twisters cause from the broken mechanic of channeling and casting twisters at the same time. It is unintended exploit. I will say exploit since, you are slowing the game down to do more damage and there is no way game devs wouldve allowed that to fly if they knew what is was causing. If you are going to try and correct someone, make sure you are correct when you do so.

Please quote where I stated that the FB set needs a nerf. You are strawmaning right now.

I have talked about numerous mechanics being an issue, never did I state FB needed a nerf.

No, I do not believe that being able to cast twisters while channeling is an issue. Being able to spawn 100+ twisters while causing frame drop is. The real problem is in that the game is slowing down, but it allows for more twisters. There is apparently an issue that needs resolved in the code related to unchecked attack speed . At 2 APS, you should only be able to have 12 twisters out at a time. Is that a twister mechanic, yes? Does it apply to FB, yes! Is FB on console benifiting far more than other twister builds, yes! If the issue was fixed, would it affect all twister builds? Yes.

Your statement , “Yes, but people are misunderstanding that they think it is the set”
Is very much a strawman argument. I neither misunderstand nor do I blame it on the set. Stating that FB wiz on console is OP is not saying the set needs nerfed. I have specified the reasons why it is OP, including the “multiple” mechanics that contribute. Not once did I mention anything about the set or set bonuses being the issue. Feel free to go back and reread the thread.

I see you’ll answer the question when asking who, now how about answering the previous questions as to what your purpose is in arguing this topic?

My purpose is to hopefully get some of these mechanics addressed that make FB wiz OP on console.

Another strawman arguement attempt. When did I ever attempt to correct you? Choose your statement wisely, and look at what my statements were in response to. The only thing you could attempt to say was me correcting you was when I stayed there were “multiple” mechanics at play causing the FB wiz to be OP. You chose to rebuttal with a statement that there weren’t multiple. I think my response to that was justified by listing the “multiple” mechanics.

You seem to think that casting twisters is the cause of the frame rate drop. To that I will correct you. It is the numerous added calculations from the DoT from magic weapon Ignite combined with the AoE of twisters that tick twice per second. The effect snowballs allowing more twisters that then add more damage ticks that then proc magic weapon ignite even more. I can not channel and crwaye said frame rate drop.

You won’t really see the lag when you play solo and in GR90. These two (Icon and Exis) are arguing about the twister lag that allows one team to finish GR150 in 5 minutes while another team without lag completes it in 14. You’re not there yet, just keep grinding and you’ll see it eventually :wink:

Oh, I know what frame rate drop I’m talking about. It definitely occurs in 4 man no matter what. The specific frame rate drop I am talking about is obtainable in solo, and it puts group frame rate drop to shame. Seriously, I timed it! It took 1 minute and 17 seconds of actual time for 5 seconds of in game time to go by. The timer would slowly count down from 14:22 to 14:19, then skip backwards back to 14:22. Only towards the end( once mobs started dying) did it continue counting down to 14:19, which is when I stopped the timer. Thats 77 seconds for 5 seconds to go by. Thats a 15.4:1 frame ratio achieving just under 2 frames per second. That equates out to getting 15.4 times the twisters out. At 2 APS and casting twisters for 117 real seconds, that comes out to 238 twisters out simultaneously. Over those 5 in game seconds. Only 10 twisters should have be active. Thats 238:10 ratio coming out to the equivalent of 23.8 times the damage potential which would be 2,380% damage if written in % form. Thats a ALOT more that the deathwish bonus of 325%.

Casting twisters while channeling is not the cause of said frame rate drop in solo. It is running magic weapon ignite!

I stated that FB isn’t the problem on console, its the game mechanics. There is no argument to be made since it is true. The easy mode on console will never be fixed until they fix those mechanics. They will not nerf the build into the ground because it isn’t that op on pc and the game devs cater to those players.

Hopefully, D2:R and D4 will never have broken mechanics like this when those launch on console.

So, your choice of words, or really lack of, puts a constraint on the message.

You say FB isn’t the problem. I think you mean to say “the FB set isn’t the problem”, which is saying something specifically different.

I agree that the FB set is not the problem. FB build on console, however, is a problem.

Blame things on whatever mechanics you want, in the end the FB wiz benifits the most from them. Therefore, it is logical to say that the FB build on console is OP. Notice I say build and not set?

As far as arguments go, you initiated the rubutal on my statements assuming I was referring to the set and somehow misperceived someone else calling for a set nerf as me saying it. To which I am justified in providing counter arguements.

I muted him a few days ago. It is for the best really. There is no need to waste energy on that ignorance and it won’t change the fact the mechanics are the issue on console.

LOL. And now resorting to throwing around the ignorance word.

Your arguments were fallacies, you attempted to frame my position as something it never was, and now you pull the cop out. I guess you either don’t have valid points or you realize your errors and can’t stand to own up to them. Too proud?

Your current behavior and your argument tactics are VERY weak, and I think you know it!