Really isn’t. If done right, the % of drops don’t change much, and there are plenty of things that have more impact on the market than that anyway.
No it isn’t. For simplicity’s sake, let’s say under FFA loot you kill Baal with 8 people and then you get 1 check for an item dropping. 1 item drops, 8 people try and grab it.
Now, for Personal loot you get 2 checks - 1 check for an item drop, and then a random check to see who gets it.
Same damn thing - 1 item overall - no spam clicking the ground.
Please explain how that scenario would be 8x the loot of FFA. I’ll wait.
snort I don’t think the MMO comparison is even valid considering you don’t have a situation where everyone in said raid is spam clicking the boss to loot the items. Also, don’t you think you SHOULD be deprived if you were purposely not trying? What kind of nonsense are you advocating for?
Spam clicking? I don’t remember this, maybe just at Baal and a few other isolated instances. It’s really not as bad as some of you make it sound. I guess our experiences playing the game weren’t the same, because I strongly disagree with you sensationalists.
The tradeoff I explained in my post…? playing together with personal-loot vs FFA are not the same experience. You don’t have to understand or “get” it. I’m just telling you how I feel and many others, apparently.
Second part of the question I pretty much refuse to address in much depth anymore (since I already have), I’ve been down this rabbit-hole plenty of times. This conversations have been beaten to death, if you weren’t aware. I don’t know now for how many months these same topics have spun in circles. You eventually get right back where you started!
The fact is, no matter how personal-loot is implemented, it will affect everybody in one way or another. At least the huge majority of online players. Some people even want totally separate servers.
As for some of the other stuff you said such and people standing around? I don’t see how loot would change this, or playing solo, that will just always happen. Sometimes people just want to play alone, I know I do, that’s normal, especially in a game where you can solo everything. Or they just want to stand around… because Diablo isn’t a raid in WoW and you can do that.
I acknowledge you have reasons for wanting personal-loot, you have to acknowledge people have reasons for wanting FFA. And I feel D2 should be kept as is, that’s all. If this was D4 I wouldn’t be having this conversation about loot. D3 already has personal-loot. D2, for better or worse, has FFA loot. I’ll choose to embrace it, I feel the game’s identity should be preserved minus small, QoL changes.
Correct. For loot based games, invariably instanced/personal loot is far more enjoyable and equitable for many. This is the reason that it is now the gold standard in video game aRPGs.
Blizzard should keep FFA loot in D2R and introduce an option for personal loot at game or character creation. Win-win.
I thought some were arguing for personal loot at a reasonable drop rate. Turns out I completely misread that. It seems you want to divide the total drop rate up amongst the players.
If 8 items dropped, and 4 players did any kind of dps then 2 items per person or something yes?
That is even more horrible an idea than the one I misread. Good luck with that. I was taking this thread seriously, but now it files under comedy.
That is what the OP wanted. Almost everyone else in this thread disagreed. Please read the series of direct replies that were made to you from forum posters supporting the idea of optional personal loot and critiquing you opinion.
Alternatively, one could consider FFA loot against role-playing and immersion. In an epic battle of good versus evil, the good loot is allocated to the ones that it makes most sense. Does Gandalf click first to get that cool bow before Legolas? Does Legolas click first to get that cool wand before Gandalf? First click, first served breaks the whole good versus evil but leads to infighting, cheating, and hostility. There is a reason that instanced loot is now the gold standard.
But if you don’t have to participate - due to it being OPTIONAL - then there isn’t a trade off.
The only way there could possibly be a trade off is if you could no longer play the way you wanted to.
Yeah, the experience in personal loot is less competitive, and that’s a good thing. Unless it’s PvP then I want to cooperate with whoever I’m playing with, not view them as potential competition or change the way I’m playing because of item drops.
If your reason for standing around is so you can potentially have a better chance at sniping loot, then personal loot means you don’t have that reason anymore. You might find a different one, but that one is gone.
And hey, you’re the one who said D2 was about the “shared” experience. I’m merely pointing out your flawed logic in believing that and liking FFA while knowing that FFA does make people play solo.
As long as that effect is good, I don’t mind.
Well, hell, give me a reason that isn’t “I want FFA because I want FFA” or “I want FFA because D2 in the year 2000 had it” and maybe I’ll acknowledge it. Because if I’m being completely honest with you those are really only 2 things I’ve read aside from “it’ll increase drop rates” which is demonstrably false, if done right.
Did you even read my reply to you? Serious question.
Well, hell, give me a reason that isn’t “I want FFA because I want FFA” or “I want FFA because D2 in the year 2000 had it” and maybe I’ll acknowledge it. Because if I’m being completely honest with you those are really only 2 things I’ve read aside from “it’ll increase drop rates” which is demonstrably false, if done right.
Since you’re pleading for a care bear change, why don’t YOU justify it beyond “because I want ploot” and “jealousy makes me feel bad”.
Outside of the obvious reason that you’re throwing a core mechanic into the wood chipper, ploot will do one of two things: increase the total loot generated so that each players instanced loot is appropriate for content, or it will divide the existing drops between players which is total BS even if it’s only on a timer. Both of these scenarios is far worse than just leaving it untouched.
No ploot, no ploot, never ploot, only a button on game creation with the label “enable ploot rules for this game instance” which uninstalls the game when you push it.
Incorrect. This is a source of frequent frustration and routinely satirized, becuase it is an obvious deficiency. See:
2. I do not like to reward do nothings who are not even in the zone who can still get monster kill loot from that zone.
3. Unfortunately, WoW and D3 are on modern battlenet and cheating still exists. As such, it is highly improbable that cheating will be remedied in D2R.
4. Issue
5. Ranged characters are at a disadvantage in terms of getting loot drops. This is an undeniable fact.
6. Issue.
Even if you disagree with all my points, why does it matter if there is a personal loot option either at game or character creation. You get your FFA loot and can play with like minded individuals. Others can play in instanced loot games. Giving others a choice is far better than forcing your views on them, especially in a video game that is supposed to be fun to play.
I do not play hardcore. I do not advocate to remove that choice from others. Live and let live.
Even David Brevik said a few times that in hindsight, he would change FFA loot to instanced/personal loot in D2 if he could go back in time. There are multiple reasons that instanced loot is now the gold standard in video game aRPGs.
Incorrect. This is a source of frequent frustration and routinely satirized, becuase it is an obvious deficiency.
Wrong. Your ‘frustration’ is not an issue.
I do not like to reward do nothings who are not even in the zone who can still get monster kill loot from that zone.
If you hate leeches so much then pick up your trash. It’s not loot, it’s trash at this point. This is still not an issue, except maybe an indicator that you have some strange personality disorder.
Unfortunately, WoW and D3 are on modern battlenet and cheating still exists. As such, it is highly improbable that cheating will be remedied in D2R.
Cheating exists and is merely tolerated. Warden exists, if Blizz acted in good faith they could ban 99% of cheaters.
Issue
Wrong.
Ranged characters are at a disadvantage in terms of getting loot drops. This is an undeniable fact.
Doesn’t matter, not an issue. If you think melee is so great in D2 then roll a melee class.
Issue.
Wrong.
Even if you disagree with all my points, why does it matter if there is a personal loot option either at game or character creation.
I won’t be tasked with dodging carebear games. Ploot is a cancer that won’t be visited upon the remaster of the greatest arpg of all time.
I do not play hardcore.
We already knew.
Even David Brevik
Blah blah turn based D1 blah.
No PLOOT, a garbage system with garbage arguments for garbage games. Have fun in D4/I.
Do you think I was the one who animated that youtube video? To claim that it is my frustration when ninja looting is widely satirized seems illogical to me.
Melee character are more likely to be in close proximity to loot drops than ranged characters. Therefore, it is not an equal footing.
How?
If you are referring to how much I played diablo games I have thousands of hours in each game of the current diablo franchise D1:Hellfire, D2:LoD and D3:RoS.
It is funny that this is brought up since he was the President of Blizzard North and the D2:LoD game director/designer. If D2 is a masterpiece, Brevik deserves some of the accolades along with the Schaefer brothers.
P.S. Brevik never wanted D2:LoD to be a turn-based game. I think you are thinking about the early development of the original diablo. It was one idea and then he agreed that an aRPG would be better, resulting in the original diablo game.
Ironically, that “garbage system” has largely been adopted in every recent video game aRPG because it is superior to FFA loot. If FFA loot was the end all be all, why was it not in D3? This is a rhetorical question. The answer is that FFA loot, the absence of shared stash, how respecs were handled in D2 were all complained about vigorously by D2 players and were changed in D3 in part due to response to D2 player feedback.
Back to the final point, if you do not like personal loot and it is given as an optional selection, you have the ability to pick FFA loot and play with like-minded players. It does not affect your gameplay experience.
Do you think I was the one who animated that youtube video? To claim that it is my frustration when ninja looting is widely satirized seems illogical to me.
You mean the video with 755k views, 33k upvotes and only 200 downvotes about the specific issue you are talking about?
What the point was (I think) was that there is widespread opposition to ninja looting that a poster insinuated that it was simply my “frustration”, implying that almost no one but myself thought ninja looting was problematic.
So you support ninja looting or simply do you think it is not a problem? Ninja looting by definition are players typically that do not contribute or contribute weakly to monster killing that swoop in to get the loot (often loot that is not even for their class).
