Fine, you can have Personal Loot

Diablo II: Resurrected General Discussion
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Personal Loot doesn’t make any good sense because D2 Resurrected is a Remaster but not a Remake of D2 (LOD).

Well, please notice the level of competition in Diablo. It lessened from title to title more and more. I bet, as it was for me, Diablo 3 was not much fun because there was no spark of excitement in it in ways and means of the play with other players. D3 felt so systematic especially in later days of the game (seasons).

Personal loot is like going to cinema and watching a movie for the purpose of the enjoyment for everyone in the hall, so seen in Diablo 3.
Public loot is like going to cinema and watching a movie for your very own purpose of enjoyment. That is Diablo 2.

Whether the one or the other site is in fact good or bad is not important at all. But you know, going to cinema and to get the best excitement from the movie was a part of enjoyment, too. Getting the best seat, being close to the toilets or refill, make it so that neither the lovers nor the bliges are close to you, and so on. And even if you didn’t get everything you still get something from the visit.

In Diablo 2 if you don’t want to share loot you going to build up MF-characters that can beat bosses on 8 players on your own. That was part of the Endgame, beside PvP and Hardcore mode.

All in all, i think most players want to play D2 Resurrected because they want to play Diablo 2 but not as a prequel of D3. Older people want something they know and had fun with already. Just look at WoW. Retail and Classic are whole different games. Same goes for Diablo.
Beside, killing the bots is the more important issue here. Public or Private Loot dosn’t matter if the bots (LOD) or dubes (Classic) mess up everything. Doesn’t make much fun if your ultra rare loot is in the hand of half the other players. :smiley:

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Unless of course you get nothing. Which sucks, right?

Public loot is more like going to the cinema and having to sit behind a tall guy, a group of chatty teenagers and a business person with an unsnoozed mobile phone. You pay the full price, you sit for an hour and still you missed most of the movie.
Nowadays you can simply subscribe to a streaming service and watch it in the privacy of your home. No people who are selfish and take your enjoyment out of rudeness. Also far more time- and money-efficient.

Are you seriously trying to tell me that you are still going to the cinema? Give me a break!

And that’s the equivalent of having to rent the VHS after going to the cinema, because the crowd in the cinema did ruin the movie. Btw there was no widescreen back then. So good luck watching infinity war on a tube set.

And they shall have it. Hence we are saying: make it an option.

You are saying the old guys want everybody to play their way. And sit behind them while they are talking over the movie.

Diablo 1 was released in 1996. Diablo 2 was released in 1998. WoW was released in 2004. Diablo 3 was released in 2012.
All of them have bots. None of them have fixed the issue.
What makes you think that D2R will fix it? It is dellusional!

Exactly! That is why it should be split fairly among the players who played for it.

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I’ll stay out the rest of this but say we do the 8 man ploot split, where the same 6 items can drop from FFA, so 2/8 will miss drops no matter what in a boss drop. Now say they do 30-40 runs and these same 2 for whatever reason just don’t luck out and roll above 25% and never get drops. How will it now feel for them, never seeing a drop and never getting a drop. Yes a slim chance, but you would never see a drop at all in those 30 games, not even the sight of what it could be hitting the ground.

Could boost it so 1 drop each, but now you altered odds. Could leave it the same but could you just imagine the RNG of never getting the drop. All based on scenarios that could happen and aren’t accounted for without altering something else. Could make it so you can see what did drop, but is that more insulting or helpful?

I dunno without changing something else keeping it FFA is the most logical to me but again if you want to do personal and never see a drop at all, guess I won’t stop you.

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As you said. A slim chance. Let’s keep the math very simple.
30 runs assuming 6 items loot per run gives you a chance of 1 - 7/8^6 ^30 to get an item.
Which is 99,999999996357%
I like those odds.
If you design a system, you usually try to make it work in 99% of the cases, not trying to find a bazillionth edge-case to balance the entire system out.

Oh, btw you assume that there are only 6 items in those games, when there are a ton of other drops as well.

Could, but dont have to. So we agreed with you that drops should not be altered and are not adding more chances to the loot table.
We have consensus there. No need to argue.

I just did. It is very low.
Also the chance is still there if you play normal. It’s not like you get guaranteed loot when you do solo runs. It is a game of chance.

A game of chance that some of the players find so hard on them that they actually want to take the chances from other players to increase their own odds.
They are literally taking away items from other players, it is increasing their odds and decreasing the chances of the others.

Yes, i will take those chances of not getting a drop every 10 millionth series of 30 games (plus variance).

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Oh, btw you assume that there are only 6 items in those games, when there are a ton of other drops as well.

Specifically said boss for a reason.

Ummmm who is taking chances away?

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And that’s what i calculated. Very slim chance. At least in my book.
Actually it is more likely for you to drop zod rune than to get no drop in your “worst case” scenario.

You are correct. They are not taking a chance away. The chance has already rolled into a hit.
So they are not taking the chance away but the reward. Even worse.
Thanks for correcting me.

Imagine playing slot machines. 8 players, each on their own machine. The chances of a hit are fairly low, still it happens every now and then.
One of the 8 player decides not to invest his coins, but instead walk around and quickly grab the reward of each of his peers.

Is he taking their chances or their reward? Who cares?! It is not the way the game is fun to be played. It is only fun for one person. ONE. Out of 8.
You know what that ratio is? 12,5%, which also is waaaay higher than the chance of not getting a drop in 30 games with only 6 shared drops in them.

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“The chance has already rolled into a hit.
So they are not taking the chance away but the reward. Even worse.”

it quite literally takes the opportunity away… it’s a forced reward chosen to be given to someone with no power from the player to decide who or based on actually involvement.

and we are taking chances away by… umm playing?

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I dont follow. Please rephrase.

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One time or another there are people out there who will try to use bots in D2: R.
It does not matter If you have Personal Loot or FFA in D2: R, some people will always try to use cheat. There are cheaters in every single online game! You can not get away, and that’s pretty sad, because they are ruining the game experience for everyone else.
I hope Blizzard will find a way to eliminate this in some way

If you want to play with no cheaters, then you have to play alone in Privat game / With friends, or Single Player.

Some players only want Personal Loot in D2: R because they are very slow to grab the item on the ground. If someone picks it up before you, do not cry. You have plently of more chances! Good luck!

You say It’s yours because you saw it first? Wrong. No one owns It, the monster you just killed owned it and now be quick and grab it. This is called FFA, and this game has competitions.

If you can’t handle this, then this game is not meant for you.
Sorry to tell, it’s only the truth.

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Yes, people will always cheat.
But there is a known cheat for picking items from players.
pLoot puts a hard stop to that avenue of cheating.
So your arguement is like saying “lets not have doors, there are always burglars in the world”. It is literally keeping the door open for them to use the same cheat they are using for ~15 years now.

So? Why would that be an argument against that?
At some point you will be old or maybe have a broken arm from sports, you might still want to find some loot then.
Maybe some day you will have a child, who is learning to play and does deserve to play the toxic ninja-clicking game.
Maybe it is not even someone from your circle, but a person who has a legitimate challenge to play the game like missing a limb or having a less vision. Why should they not get their fair chance.

You are arguing from the perspective of the winning party of this “game”. If you would not make a better cut than others, you would not argue like that.
I still make a better cut than others, i could also be selfish and take stuff from other players. But with life (and other games, who have shown the benefit of pLoot) i have seen that those games are far more enjoyable and cooperative when it comes to distributing the loot. The items itself are still better in d2 ofc.

It’s not the truth. It’s the beneficiary of a one-sided system arguing to keep it.
And anybody who could manage to lift their eyes across the boundries of their own ego should be able to see that.

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It can even be something as simple as low quality internet connection resulting in more ping that makes it less likely that you can click first.

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Ah, so what you’re really scared of is that you won’t get as much loot under a personal loot system.

Since it would hopefully be optional, though, you’ll be fine. You can continue clicking your wrist to death.

NON-contributing players have the opportunity to click item = BAD

Players having the opportunity to break loot agreements without repercussion = BAD

'Cause it saves other people the trouble of figuring out who the hell said what and when.

Yeah, but… if what you’re after is your very own purpose of enjoyment, you could just play solo. Unless you’re telling me you need to mess with others in order to get enjoyment, in which case I really don’t care about what you want.

You do realize you’re basically promoting selfishness, right?

But it does because FFA loot will allow bots to script picking up drops. Personal loot stops one aspect of botting in D2 completely.

You’d still be playing Diablo 2. A fairer version of it, really.

Better than 7/8 missing drops because of a bot script, ain’t it?

The Diablo franchise is basically centered around RNG, so it’s not like this is anything new. It’s not like you particularly care about a scenario where someone goes 100 gambles without getting anything good, right? So why the bleep would you care about this scenario?

Yep.

So we if have a definitive way to absolutely kill 1 aspect of botting, should we not do it?

Ehhhh. I don’t know about others, but I’m not particularly slow at grabbing the item on the ground (you know, as long as I’m playing a melee character and ready when it drops, as opposed to playing my class correctly or worrying about killing the monster first), I just think it’s an archaic concept that I actually need to worry about when I grab the item on the ground.

Why should it matter whether I pick up an item .5 seconds after the boss dies as opposed to 2 seconds after the boss dies? Really, what’s the gain there in my having to do that? Keeping my reflexes sharp? Man, if I wanted that out of video games I’d be playing competitive FPS or RTS games, not Diablo.

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This.
I always chuckle when D3 players call themselves “elite”.

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I’m not scared of anything because ploot is a :clown_face: idea that wont be implemented. Under that system, EVERYONE is FORCIBLY DENIED loot. A loser system that makes everyone loser!

It’s still a 1:1 click to pickup ratio, chief. Try to find a more logical way to be condescending.

Under ploot those NON-contributing members are actually denying you access to the drops. Now they can be slow, AFK, AND NON-contributing. You’re arguing to make your problem worse, bravo.

If players are breaking their agreements with you I guess you’re not as important as you thought; real shocker!

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Incorrect assumptions you made:

  • Ploot split the drops fairly
  • Other person was “deserving”

This is a game that approaches a point where fewer 1/1000 of the items dropped will be worth picking up. Pretending that adding a random dice roll which 1/8 that item makes things equitable or preferable is true :clown_face: logic.

I’m not “jealous” about such a :clown_face: system because it doesn’t exist. You’re confusing “jealousy” with “disgust”. It would give a much greater reason for people to go solo. “Oh no someone might get the drop first” becomes “Oh no I only have access to a small fraction of the drops now”. P8 bosses dropping literally nothing. If you want to play in a mode where 7/8 of the drops simply disappear than feel free to create a mod with these settings and then enjoy it by yourself because no one is gonna stick around for that BS. BNET is not the place.

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Personal loot is one of the worst things that have happened to modern RPGs. It literally kills trading.

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Personal loot does not mean account bound.

For example, D3 has always had instanced/personal loot. In its early days, items were tradeable and there even was an auction house. Later in D3, trading became exceptional limited to party members for a few hours.

The problem with all loot systems is how to distribute loot fairly which is nearly impossible to do.

  1. I think that a minimum requirement to pickup loot from a monster kill is that you are at least in that vicinity when the kill happens. Instanced loot meets this bare minimum requirement while FFA doe not.

  2. What happens when a non-deserving player is near a monster kill, a scenario that occurs in both FFA and instanced loot game? Since that non-deserving/non-contributing player can be focused on getting ninja loot and not DPSing in a FFA game, they can get far more than 1/8 of good drops in an 8 player game. Therefore, contributing players will get less than what would be expected by random chance alone. In a personal loot game, contributing players expect in a similar scenario to get about 1/8 of good drops with binomial variability.

  3. For deserving players, FFA loot means that they can get nothing. At least with personal loot, they are guaranteed a proportional fraction to the player number in the area of the monster kill and can collect all the loot that is assigned to them with a binomial variance.

Therefore, instance loot is more equitable than FFA loot overall.

and currently they do not drop enough loot for everyone. If Baal drops 5 items in an player game, 3 players will always get nothing in FFA. That is D2. In a instanced loot game, 3 players will still get nothing.

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  • You don’t get to decide who is or is not a ‘deserving player’. Any system you put in place to attempt this will fail, creating a worse environment.
  • 1/8 item access is completely laughable
  • Welcome to Hell in Sanctuary, where we don’t care about being pretending to try to be “equitable”
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Irrespective of the relative merits of FFA versus instanced loot, I still do not think that I have heard an explanation why optional personal loot at game or character creation would harm you game experience with FFA loot since you could always plays in FFA games with like-minded players?

Exactly, players should not decide. This is why personal loot is better since it is RNG. Moreover,in personal loot where at least the player needs to be present when monster killed to get loot in contrast to FFA.

If players are similar skill with clicking, that is functionally what it is now in an FFA loot game for good items.

Except you are fighting the minions of hell and the devil in an epic battle of good versus evil. Good players in a party should not be infighting.

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Alright. It splits it in a fairer way then.
In your world nobody is deserving anyway. So they are equally deserving, so they are all deserving. Remember? No pick up, no deserving. Easy.

Splitting things evenly usually makes things equitable. That is basically the definition of splitting things evenly.
Splitting 10 eggs evenly. Or 4 Cakes. Or every 8th item. Or every 1000th item. It all comes down to the same thing. Equitable distribution.
As with all things related to chance, it trends towards equitable distribution (based on the probabilities) on the long run.

You dont seem to have a strong grasp on stochastics, could that be the problem?

Might as well be. There is alot to confuse about your posts.

It might. But literally every pLoot game shows that it doesnt. So: No.

They dont disappear. They are distributed between party allies. All of which are equally deserving and are happy that their teammembers are getting nice items as well.
In the end, they all have a long hug. It’s a spectacle.

Or, we could just add it as an option and actually see where your wild claim actually stands.
Something about your jealousy, disgust, whatever you wanna call it tells me that you have doubts that you are actually correct. You are afraid that you will be the only person playing FFA loot games so that you can no longer steal from anybody. Sad, sad turlok.

The two things are completely uncorrelated.

True. You want to be the one to decide who is a deserving player. And something tells me that the answer to that question is also: you.

No, it wont.

When you were typing “laughable” you meant to type “fair”, right?
You are literally laughing at fairness. Kinda ironic.

Who is that “we” you are talking about? The party of ninja-looters in d2?

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