I never played D3, just D2 since it came out. So forgive my lack of understanding on this.
What is it exactly?
I know the pain of being in a public game and seeing something like a Shako or Ber rune drop and no matter how fast or how insane you click that right mouse button, you grab the exceptional greaves instead… and thats OK, keep playing and hopefully grab it first next time!
Shared loot is exactly the situation you’re talking about.
The game generates loot for everyone to see and it’s first in first serve so to speak.
The other common form of loot is instanced loot. This is where the game generates loot per player that only they can see. meaning if I’m in a 4 man and we kill Andy I and my other 3 friends all get our own personal drops and can’t see each others.
Obviously up sides and down sides to both, but that’s how they work mechanically.
Oh perhaps I am thinking of what is the second form, Personal Loot… Everyone keeps advocating for adding in Shared or Personal Loot, when as you said, D2 is shared, first come first serve, and that is how the game should stay.
So Ill ask more details on that since that is actually the form I was curious about.
Are the loot drops all the same per player?
For instanced loot all drops are different. They are all calculated by the same rules that the game would use to drop loot. Just it runs all the math per player rather than per lobby.
So in my Andy example I could get 1 unique and 5 rares and one of my other friends could get 4 blues and 2 gems.
Gotcha. Thanks for the information.
Yes, personal loot essentially is loot drops on the ground that only you can pick up (depending on how its implemented it also possible only you can see it)
The main two reasons people dont want it changed are (for the record I don’t want it changed):
Personal loot will in many ways affect drop rates in multiplayer games. To add in personal loot and not change drop rates would create issues which would mean the dev team would have to tinker with drop rates. A large portion of the player base does not trust the dev team to adjust rates in a way that will be a net benefit to the game. Also, if drop rates still are increased in multiplayer games this now would be an even bigger penalty in not playing full party
The other big thing I see are leechers. Leechers can and will exist no matter what, and they aren’t really a “bad” thing. This will just empower them in a very different way. It is now extremely beneficial to join a party or group doing an activity you have no business doing and just safely picking your personal loot to their efforts where as in the past you mostly got scraps. You can get GG pieces this way. Technically this could always happen, but since good players know what top drops are, it is very hard to pick something good up in a character that cant handle the content since you could be erased while trying.
Personal loot does help ranged characters. I do LIKE personal loot, I just would not want it anywhere near the early stages of this D2 release. Whatever this game ends up being, I think its base should be very close to original D2 and with the option to always play in this mode. I don’t think the dev team should take gambles on release with new systems that require serious tweaking to game balancing when we already know the current system is very enjoyable.
If they make any changes to how loot drops, it will no longer be Diablo 2.
If you want personal loot, play solo.
You make some good points. I am pro Shared Loot as well but I do see the viability of personal loot, however I will premise that by saying, its not the D2 way.
Your point about leechers being able to just let others kill for their own loot is valid, I am curious why thats even a thing? I feel that if you dont kill the Monster, you dont get any loot or very little, or if another player kills it, the drop rate is your own mf rate, and thus you dont have the higher % of an elite item dropping for doing nothing at all to help kill that monster.
Sounds like way to big of can to open, so I support leaving the system as is, OEM.
Even with what you just said, I could then walk in with MF gear head to toe in a game and kill nothing if my personal MF is used to calculate. Making drops rates based on who killed or damaged monsters is another can of worms that does not sound fun on its surface.
Those pushing for personal loot in D2 really refuse to consider these are real things that would need to be addressed to implement. Like you said its a can of worms and the end result of trying to tackle it ends up with a game that isnt D2. Which is pointless way to launch a D2 remaster.
Yeah good point with the mf gear and allowing others to kill, however that has been a tactic used in D2 before by having switching weapons with a barb for instance wielding dual Ali Baba and getting the last hit… It was alot of work but for a huge mf boost.
I agree, I lean to the side leave it be.
This is not true. In a 8 player multiplayer game, let’s assume there are 80 global items drops per some unit of time. In a personal loot scenario each player, would receive 10 items drop in the same period of time (10 personal drops X 8 players = 80 total drops). I both cases, 80 items drop total.
Your point only is relevant to leechers who do not understand the game well. “savvy” leechers will earn way more drops than good players because their eyes are really on stealing all the good items and do not need to concern themselves with dealing damage but just staying alive and swooping in. Therefore, personal loot actually discourages leeching and autopicker hacks/cheats.
Next, the trade economy is far more robust with personal loot. This can be determined mathematically as described here:
D2R: Personal Loot is a MUST for this game! - General Discussion - Diablo 3 Forums (blizzard.com)
you have a misconception that with item drops 80/10 = 80. The way this game works that wont be the case. I feel like you’re really only thinking boss runs which will generally come off as wanting to leech.
Ignoring the no drop and potion drop concepts of the game, Unless all players are similarly geared this won’t function the same as far as drops go to how the current game feels.
Ranged or Melee I have come to find when I am in a group of players, if my gear is far superior to other players it is much easier for me to loot compared to others once we get into hell difficulty since I can both survive and do damage. Even with a bowazon, I can bring the enemies health low and walk over as my merc finishes them off and loot. A less geared character has a high chance to die or be unable to finish packs off. In this scenario where I am for the most part carrying the game, you are now asking me to give up that increased share I got. This was always kind of the tradeoff to playing with someone who was much stronger than you, it was likely they got the best loot.
As far as “savy” leechers this is still something I don’t get. What scenario are you constantly playing with a “savy” leecher who is constantly taking loot you earned? It is way more likely this person was equally geared as you and just had a faster click and you are sour about not getting the item (we’ve all been there). If you are welled geared there would be little delay between doing damage and seeing drops. They have no advantage unless cheating. Personal loot doesnt fix this problem, for every time that guy beat you to the click, now you are just giving him one of your drops. I don’t see how this doesn’t result in a wash unless you are extremely bad on the click
As far as your math, it doesnt work. If someone is getting ALL or 50% of the drops in the game the chances they are carrying your game (or a ridiculous clicker which is a skill). The more likely scenario is on average you would still get an equal distribution of drops across all the games you play not the one time some ridiculous item dropped.
The logic you are trying to employ just doesnt shake out. 1/8 of an 8 player game sounds like less loot than playing single player. If I can actually handle the content why would I sign up for that in a PUG game?
Sorry it could be that in my playstyle the things I do to gain experience/progress are separate from the things I do to get items. The only situation I could see where personal loot is meaningful is doing boss runs with 8 players at a similar level.
Even if I agreed with the specifics of your post (definitely I have issues with some parts), you have completely neglected that we will be using global servers in D2R where as your physical distance to the servers increases so presumably your ping. As such, global loot is inherently unfair to those more distant to the server.
It would not be about skill in clicking or playstyle. You can not collect loot an item that does not appear on your screen due to ping lag. Pl;ayers closer to the server have the advantage. Personal loot remains the best way and why modern aRPG has adopted this.
These arguments work if we were making a new game. I am explaining why what you are suggesting changes Diablo 2. A game already made and with an already expected outcome of drops that it seems people do like.
Can you explain the simple question of how would 80/10 be better than single player drops? players 8 does not equal 8 times the drops so experience would be the only argument.
Moving to this system sounds like you would have the more geared players play either single player or make games with people they know who carry their weight. The only benefiters would be people who sit in baal runs all day long and cannot complete them by themselves.
Stop repeating yourself. We’ve already seen you post this non-sense elsewhere. Are you an engineer ? I don’t think you have any idea of the client/server protocol involved here and thus any argument you may throw about ping is invalid by default. It is totally possible to simply make the item drop client-side with a lag compensation based on something as simple as average ping per player. Thus, player with fastest ping will get the item drop delayed client-side. If all players are under 100ms, given that a frame is around 16.67ms at 60Hz, we are talking at most about 6 frames of reaction-time compensation at 60Hz.
We’ll repeat as many times as needed, but no one should want personal loot, ever. And those who still wish to have it because they are still unable to understand valid arguments, are free to enjoy Diablo 3 and let people who truly care about this game for the past 20 years enjoy it the way it was intended.
I am talking about total drops in 8 player game per the same unit time:
Global loot: 80 total drops
Personal loot = 10 drops for each player. Therefore, 80 drops total.
Both systems result in the same number of total drops.
My degrees are irrelevant, but yes I have sufficient experience to make this conclusion.
Just search the forum and you will see that players more distant to servers have in general higher ping after correcting for local quality,
Search the forum with the terms “ping PTR”. You will quickly discover post upon posts where EU layers experience incredibly high pings that they never experience when connecting to their local server. The prrof is in tasting the pudding.
I just proved to you mathematically that the netcode can be made so (by anyone who has ever done socket programming truly) that the lag issue can be fully compensated. And you failed to understand it. Stop wasting my time with useless arguments that do not address what I just said. I do not want to search the forum for anything when my argument is already valid and the netcode can fully compensate for that. If the original game didn’t do this I do not care, we are talking about D2R which will have a fully different protocol for obvious reasons which I hope your brain will infer.
Can you point me to this? I showed my math in a post. To my knowledge, I have not seen anyone provide a critique showing an error.
It seems you are unable to understand why your logic doesn’t hold up, or at least that it doesn’t do the things you say it does.
It doesn’t fix the issues you are speaking of, it just redistributes them. Now its Andy dies and drops an SOJ and its given to the guy who stood in the corner and the guy on her body who did most of the work gets a blue axe. I
You are saying somehow thats inherently more fair and people are telling you its not. All it stops is someone else taking it from you if by luck the drop was allocated to you.
So, you know how in D2 an item drops and everyone can see it on the ground? Well, in D3 when an item drops on the ground, it’s a loot for you, that no one else can see and pick up. Upon picking it up, you can give it to someone else within 2 hours or you can keep it for yourself.
Hold on for a moment. Your post hasn’t been edited… so it turns out, that you do know what it is and you have an opinion about it.
So why didn’t you start with that?
In any case, unless I’m playing with friends, I’m MFing alone. When I’ve got my gear through grinding and trading, I join exp runs with randoms. At this point, I have no expectation of picking up an item.
Whether that’s a good thing or not, I guess that can be debated.
Personally, I wouldn’t necessarily mind personal loot. I am not sure how it would work though… as in, D2 is not the kind of game, where you always need the group to be in the same place, unless you’re doing an exp run.