Echoing fury/Pig sticker on Invoker

Crusader
1

Why isnt echoing fury considered a better option than pig sticker when you play Invoker crusader? 75% attackspeed affix where all u need is to attack fast. Am I missing something scrolling the leaderboards?

2

Short answer

  • Yes.

Long answer

  • Echoing Fury is a one-handed mace and therefore has a base attack speed of 1.20 attacks per second.
  • Echoing Fury has a 10-20% chance to fear on hit.
  • Echoing Fury grants an attack speed buff on kills.
  • Pig Sticker is a one-handed dagger and therefore has a base attack speed of 1.50 attacks per second.
  • Pig Sticker gives 15-30% bonus damage versus humans and and beasts
  • Pig Sticker has one more primary affix than any other one-handed weapon

Okay, so, Invoker is a thorns-based build. That means the faster you can make attacks, the more often you can cause thorns damage, and the more damage you do. Straight away, we can see that Pig Sticker makes 1.50 attacks per second versus Echoing Fury’s 1.20, i.e. it makes 20% more attacks per second, which means it applies 20% more thorns damage.

Next, you factor in that Echoing Fury has an inbuilt fear affix. If you’re surrounded by lots of mobs, and especially with the changes that Patch 2.7.3 is bringing in where you’ll be using Slash rather than Punish (with Omnislash in the Cube) you’ll be hitting every mob around you in a 360 degree arc, every time you’re attacking. If you cause 10-20% of them to run away each time you make an attack, that means you’ll spend more time chasing down mobs than killing them.

Okay, now what about Echoing Fury’s attack speed stacks? Well, they’re proc’d by kills, not by attacks. Whilst you’re speed-farming easy content, it’s simple to get up and maintain five stacks but in GRs, for every GR rank you go up, mob health increases by 17%, and that’s cumulative. This means, the harder the GR is, the less frequently mobs die and, thus, the less easy it is to obtain and maintain stacks of the buff. Also, if you get a single-target Guardian, Echoing Fury is useless as it has nothing to gain stacks from.

That brings us to the fact that Pig Sticker has an extra primary affix compared to other one-handed weapons. This means you can get one with primary affixes like this…

Elemental Damage Range
Strength
Vitality
Life Per Hit
Cooldown Reduction

You then add a socket to it with a Ramaladni’s Gift so you can put in a Topaz (for 38,000 thorns) but then you remember that Invoker is a thorns build. Every other build in the game has abilities which are multipliers based on your weapon damage. An Invoker’s damage is based on multipliers of their Thorns value, which means their weapon damage is completely irrelevant. The weapon’s just there to apply thorns as rapidly as possible. Punish or Slash aren’t doing any significant damage themselves, they’re just being used to apply Thorns to enemies. This means you can roll off the elemental damage component into a useful offensive or mitigation affix, and you can end up with something that has primary affixes like this…

Strength
Vitality
Life Per Hit
Cooldown Reduction
Increased Attack Speed (rerolled from the Elemental Damage Range)
Socket

5 Likes
3

one more primary affix than most* one-handed weapons.

4

Care to provide the name of another with the same number of affixes?

5

Yea I get that EF have a conditional affix but 75% attackspeed is alot if requirements are met, aka clearing some trashmobs. What if putting EF in cube over furnace? Then you dont suffer from the fear affix. (Gift of silaria 1h sword have 5 or 6 affixes)

6

Pig Sticker has 7 affixes.
A few of the 1h weapons have 6.
The rest are all at 5 or less.

Of course, the downside of Pig Sticker is that it has no useful legendary power, and 2 of the affixes are a one or the other deal. Either Human or Beast for the bonus, ie. you cannot ever get both to apply. Also, I believe few if any Boss, RG, or Elites fall into that classification.

I personally prefer Envious Blade or Horadric Hamburger, both of which have the same attack speed as Pig Sticker.

For pure attack speed the legendary dagger Kill is/was the superior of them all, tho I am not certain if it even still exists within the game…

7

The quick answer is that EF bonus is based on kills. When you are fighting solo stuff it’s 100% poop.

1 Like
8

Spectrum (20 characters)

9
Summary

https://c.tenor.com/5iXomuvuRQ4AAAAC/drop-the-mic-obama-mic-drop.gif

10

Only has 6 affixes, one less than Pig Sticker… It is also only a 1.40 speed, .10 slower

2 Likes
11

Thanks for your input, but if you read the comment he said primary affixes.

12

I did indeed.
As an example, look at the Pig Sticker on my Invoker

So, primary affixes are…

  1. Strength
  2. Vitality
  3. Increases Attack Speed
  4. Life Per Hit
  5. Cooldown Reduction
  6. Socket

Secondary Affixes are

  1. Damage to Beasts
  2. Damage to Humans

That’s eight affixes in total, one of which is from a Ramaladni’s Gift, i.e. the base dagger has 7 affixes (5 primary, 2 secondary), and adding the socket takes it to 8 affixes (6 primary, 2 seconday).

13

Yes, and yes, I too can count.

ibb. co/2dvJ1PB

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6…

14

Doombringer, Akanesh (the holy damage spear), and Empyrean Messenger are the more common ones.

15

Isn’t Invokers struggle fighting large density and not single target? Fair tradeoff to have better attackspeed in high density and less attackspeed at bossfight

16

There was a change to invokers so it’s bonus applies to multiple targets now.

17

Patch 2.7.3 (which was recently tested on the PTR) makes significant changes to that in that rather than your thorns being applied just to the first target hit, it applies to all targets hit.

Previously, you’d be using Punish / Celerity which was single target, with Belt of the Trove in the Cube to auto-cast Bombardments to maintain the set’s mitigation bonus. However, post-patch, you’ll be using Slash, with the Omnislash belt in the Cube (necessitating manual casting of Bombardment), which causes your Slash to be a 360 degree full circle, i.e. you’re hitting every mob around you. It significantly enhances an Invoker’s ability to clear trash mobs, not just the elite-hunting of previous iterations.

2 Likes
18

Yes I read about that, couldnt EF in cube be even more powerful since you will be able to clear trash around you very consistant? I’m only 1900 paragon so I cant benchmark stuff to its full potential

19

For speeds, EF in Cube could work, but I suspect people will stick to The Furnace for pushing.

20

Thanks, I will try it all out when patch releases. Sidenote, would thos 2 AOE runes for punish for ? I mean roar and the retaliate rune, would those also apply thorns around you like omnislash and slash?