@ hypercow and Vindictive… u CANT just "lower the amount of “sojs” and have it work the same way.
becuase the bnet 2.0 donest use the same server setup that 1.0 with different IP’s that did.
also becuase again the entire point of doing it that way was to remove duped sojs… there ARE no duped sojs.
the REASON sojs were the economy in 1.09 was becuase they were all freaking duped.
i was a dclone hunter for over 4 years, and eventually the irc server just flat out died becuase no one could get any enough NL sojs together to form a run… even dupsed sons had become SO RARE by that time no would would do the runs… why do u think anni are so ungodly expensive now? becuase u cant walk the server anymore.
blizzard method worked they got rid of 99.99% of the dubed sojs and there just flat out arn’;t enough to even keep the commuity of walkers and anni farmers who did the runs alive anymore.
you say “keep it the same and lower the number”
how the hell is that going to work? you are going to make what 10 sojs sell and walk literally every single D2:R game in existence? becuase thats what would happen or it would just not work at all because the setup is looking for IP’s that no longer exist
there are no more “different Ip’” its all the same ip now there are no more “us west and US east”.
you cant just “port over” the old system for the same reason you cant just port a ps3 game to a ps4 or ps5, the HARDWARE behind the servers on bnet 2.0 is structured completely differently.
a ps3 game wont run on a ps4 because when the code say " do this function on spu 2 or spu 6 or spu5" those are all HARDWARE locations
the ps4 doesn’t USE spu’s the function ps3 games, literally cannot run because it would be told to go find a hardware location that doesn’t exist anymore.
bnet 2.0 uses completly different hardware and ip mapping. you CANT just port over the old method
and even if you “somehow” could
whats going to happen when you now have every game with the same IP because its bnet 2.0?
as soon as you see “sojs sold to merchants” literally every player is going to leave and make their own game. not only would that ruin the economy and the value of annis it would. put an insane amount of stress on the servers as every single player would want to make a new game all at the same time.
What he means is, that he doesn’t want the fight altered, as in nerfed.
He wants the method to spawn the Diablo Clone to change, and it simply must chance, as the way to spawn him like it worked before would no longer be an option anyways.
There’s no contradiction between the two.
I think you should still need to sell a # of SOJs and it will then spawn in your game or across that server IP number.
Anni is so powerful that it’s worth multiple SOJs. Maybe the right number is somewhere between 4-10? Enough that a single person could do it, or a group of 8 players could band together and each sell one.
This will keep it similar to current D2 DClone mechanic. But to be fair selling 100+ SOJs (assuming there will be less botting/duping) is simply not feasible.
that wouldn’t work though
because in your first scenario you listed " a couple players would get together and walk the ip" like in the old days… but that cant work because the IP’s don’t work that way on bnet 2.0 all games use the same “ip” now
this would mean if 10 sojs were sold it would walk on every hell game in existance, which is impossible becuase as soon as people starting selling sojs every single person playing d2:r would try to make thier own private hell game for thier own anni, and that would fail becuase the server woudlnt be able to handle everyone doing that at the exact same time
the 2nd scenario wont work because no one would ever have 10 sojs to spend and u wouldn’t be able to get “groups” together because a single game would only make 1 anni.
I’d be fine with some form of a very long grind in order to guarantee a spawn you can control. I agree that a low number of sojs as a cost for a guaranteed spawn in your own game seems fair. I can already see the scam games now though… “Ur1soj4Dclone”
thats the thing you cant “farm for sojs” like u can farm for mats. selling “10 sojs” for ONE anni will never work becuase no one will EVER do that if all u get is ONE.
80-120 sojs spawns annis on literally HUNDREDS IF NOT thousands or tens of thousands of random games on that ip
“sojs” are NOT common. the only reason trhey were used as currency back in the day… was becuase they were ALL duped. no one EVER would walk a game with LADDER sojs… they would all pay for dirt cheap NL sojs becuase they were a dime a dozen.
even having a 1v1 smash 1 real soj for an anni would be terrible becuase u cant “farm for an soj” like u can keys.
I have a feeling that they may not include dclone right away in the initial release but that they might add him in shortly after release once they figure out how they want to do it. The devs already said that he’s going to be in there one way or the other, they just need to figure out the mechanics behind it. I feel like this is one of those things that they might put off until after release to make sure the current estimated release timeframe doesn’t slip. It’ll be interesting to see what they end up doing for this.
I can’t remember if it’s okay or not post a youtube video link, but just in case, I won’t. MrLlamaSC released a video on Feb 20th titled " Diablo 2 RESURRECTED - Private Q/A Answers!!" and at timestamp 11:16 he speaks to this very topic.
What’s so hard to understand about that?! xD So many people still want to vendor SOJs… WHY? The purpose of doing so was to get rid of dupes! SOJs were worth NOTHING back then. So The actual intention was NOT to make a DClone spawn super expensive, but just pseudo random and kind of “rare” in the sense, that you can’t open a game, run, open game, run as with baal.
If you now let it cost 8 SOJ, both SOJs and anni would literally cost 30 high runes or so… not gonna work! It’s super bad to sell SOJs for the spawn!
I would love a key system similar to the one for the Ubers, but:
As you guys now, there are unique monsters, which are not Bosses and always spawn, like Rakanishu, Pindle, called super uniques
In every act, there would be multiple unique monsters, which are “potential key wardens” or what ever you want to call them, e.g.:
act1: Blood Raven, Rakanishu, Grisworld, Treehead Woodfist and the smith
act2: Radament, Beetle Burst, …
act3: Stormtree, Sarine, a Member of the Council
act4: Hephaisto, Lord de Seis, …
act5: Eldritch, Shenk, Pindle, …
(only on hell ofc)
Now every day (!), one of these PER act is chosen as key warden and there is no way to find out, except for knowing, which super uniques can be key wardens and killing them until you find 1 key per act.
If you have all 5 keys, you can craft them into a SOJ duplicate for example, which you can trade or you can vendor it and DClone spawns in your game only.
I think it would be interesting, because people, who try to find the keys would actually play a lot of areas, which are not touched otherwise. Also the different keys had different values, because the one from act 5 for example would be easier to get, because of Pindle.
This seems rather complicated and too far away from the Diablo Clone experience that the average D2 player had.
For the overwhelming majority of the community it was nothing but a rare random spawn - and maybe it would be the best to implement it exactly like that.
Just make it so that a certain amount of Diablo Clones is spawning per active player per hour.
That way it could be controlled very easily how often a player meets the Diablo Clone.
I think maybe about once every 100-200 hours would be a good value?
You have interesting ideas, but I fear that it’s deviating too much from the original. Like you’re recommending a whole new system to spawn DClone. I think thats too far of a deviation. Meanwhile selling less SoJs is not a new system, in fact its the same system, but just more accessible.
I’ve farmed 2 SoJs on my single player Sorceress, they aren’t that rare. Meanwhile I’ve not found any HR higher than Mal.
Well, I have found a Ber once, but not a single SOJ in my life
You are completely right and I would never suggest a new system for D2, if the old system would work. But I think, it does not at all and without any dupes, even selling 2 SOJs would still be way more expensive than back in the days… As I said, I don’t think, spawning DClone was ever supposed to be expensive, but “random” and “rare”.
Exactly anni charms are worth more than SoJ. So if there’s 200 hell games up and 10 are required to spawn, you got a potential of 200 anni charms for 10 sojs, so 20x less cost.
1 sold and spawns in only the game it is sold in sounds good to me
That’s exactly the problem, isn’t it? You say 10 SOJs (of which maybe 1-2 were not duped back than) give 200 annis…
If you now get 1 anni for 1 SOJ, the anni becomes 200x more expensive than in Vanilla D2. Also a DClone spawn does not mean, that people kill him! I saw like 4 spawns on ladder and he never died, because the players were not prepared at all and too low lvl.
I think it really comes down to what you want the value of the anni to be.
There are alternatives to sojs that are perfectly viable, and in some cases, superior. Swapping an soj with a fcr ring can potentially open up other gear slots for interesting options while still hitting a desired fcr breakpoint. Now look at replacing any other small charm with an anni. There is nothing that even comes close.
Compared to a small charm with 5 all res and 20 hp… an soj is not that rare, even with zero bots and dupes. Now compare that 5/20 to a small charm that has 10-20 all res, 10-20 all attributes, 5-10% bonus xp and +1 all skills. Of course this should be worth far more than an soj, at least in my opinion.
I think it makes sense to put the cost of an anni at least at a point where it isn’t an obvious decision. Why would I ever keep an soj when I don’t already have an anni? And even then, why not try for a better one if my first one didn’t roll great stats? Make it a few sojs and now the question about whether to use the sojs, trade them, or go for that sweet, sweet anni becomes more difficult to answer.
I do also have to acknowledge that an item’s rarity and the amount of power they contribute to your character do not necessarily have to correlate perfectly. That’s why I say it’s more about what you want the anni to be worth. Personally, I like the idea of the anni being extremely difficult to get, where even a terribly rolled one is worth more than a single soj.
If they cannot do it like the original way due to no IP information available etc then this would be the closest to it or even make it harder like 3 sojs = spawn’s Diablo we need to keep Anni one of the rarest in the game as its soooo valuable (1 slot and gives all those stats!) i personally wouldn’t want to see it easier as it devalues it 100%.
i cant respond to everyone here, but a lot of u are missing the point of what the old system did… the old system was implemented to remove hundreds of thousands if not millions of duplicated SOJ’s from nonladder.
to even consider using that system where there is no nonladder on day 1 with no one having a single soj is lunacy.
another point i see brought up is to just “sell a real soj” to spawn him in your 1 game. ok yes that would work except for you cant control if u find an soj. and yes as someone pointed out u CAN farm nightmare andy because it has the highest chance but that chance is still like… .00125 percent chance
its not " 8% chance to get key of destruction"
requiring an random item like that is absurd.
to the people who say " just make it walk on every hell game"
i’ll have u consider…
wtf do u think is going to happen when EVERY SINGLE PERSON PLAYING D2:R
see’s "the soj sold to merchants pop up?
what do think the reaction is going to be
what would you do?
that means i have just been told that EVERY SINGLE HELL GAME is about to spawn dclone.
and people want THIER own anni… so EVERYONE single person playing d2:r will leave thier game and make a new game with a password.
aka you just told over 50 THOUSAND people or however many people are playing at the time the soj counter pops up. to “make a game”
you are going to bring down the whole server doing that.
i shouldn’t need to tell you that “isn’t a viable solution”
i mean i know i asked for all your opinions but i expected ( i guess out of my own naivety ) u to think this through.
you cant just “walk every server” you would bring down battle.net trying to do that.
so let me ask properly with contrasts so u people don’t try to come up with more idea that will crash the servers
it HAS to be local and limited to your game. becuase you cant do global without crashing battle.net
“we dont have millions of sojs” to start with and no player is EVER going to sacrifice a mass amount of sojs"
even 1 soj while it being 100% worth to swap for an anni, would be a terrible idea becuase you cant farm them.
there has to be a method used to “farm” them like u did with keysets for organs , or essences for resets.
and that method cant include a fight that is harder than the dclone fight itself… aka uber mephy
so… with those restraints…
how do u think this process should be done?
1 single mob having a chance to drop a fake soj?
gather peices to cube together to then smash at the hellforge.
if you are farming bosses what bosses… how many bosses/ mats will be needed
will there be a seperate fight in between like lilith and izzy and duriel?
etc
i want WORKABLE solutions… not “sell 10 sojs to make it walk on every server”
