This is what i would like items in D4 to look like:
Rare mace:
+3 to skills
+50-150 Fire dmg
+4% crushing blow chance
25% faster attack speed
+10 to max resource
+15 demonic power
+20 fire res
Legendary mace:
+3 to skills
+100-200 Fire dmg
+6% crushing blow chance
50% faster attack speed
+20 to max resource
+20 demonic power
+10 all res
+4% resource stolen on hit
• Frozen aura when equipped, slows enemies and deal dmg (small ammount)
OMG simply awefull. sorry but you dont understand how a good itemization system is done.
Briefly: every types of items must have positive and negative aspects
In your proposal the legendary is a merely an upgrade, with the leg power (which in any case can be extracted); once you find the legendary the rares is complely outdated. This is called powercreep, and nobody wants that because it leeds to obsolescence to entire category of items
More in depths:
Rares are rares. many affixes, should roll higher that leg
(magic items will have less affixes, but should roll higher stats)
Legendaries in particoular, to avoid the powercreep, need to have a distinct flavor and with some unique affixes you cannot find in other items; the dev tean need to be sure they’re not simply a mindless upgrades from magic or rares.
Peace \m/
I disagree that every item need positive and negative effects. I mean if you find an item that has 2 preferred affixes and 2 meh ones, but it’s an upgrade I get it. But then the next item may have 4 preferred affixes to the 2 good and 2 meh ones you have currently equipped. Nit seeing a negative there.
Maybe it’s the word you used, but there doesn’t need to be an positive and a negative. That says while this item will give you the stats you need, you will deal far less damage than before or be much more vulnerable to attacks than before.
Nothing wrong with items being positive. Maybe you meant you may lose some states or bonuses here in exchange for gains over there with this new item. Which happens all the time. But there has always been that as well as the chance for an item to be an upgrade all around to being a game changer.
I disagree, you dont need negative effects too balance out or to make items interesting, my point with the example above is simply that the difference between legendary and rare in terms of dammage is not too big, where the main perk of a legendary is the unique affix, in short i would like to see more items similar to D2. Please give me some examples of items you would like to see
I imagine HalfEvil333 didn’t mean items should have negative affixes. Just that each item type should have the potential to be best at something.
It makes sense to say that the different end-game rarities should all offer something, otherwise, why have them.
On the other hand, that also leads me to say; do not have magic items in end-game. I know some people want to see magic items being viable, by giving them much higher stat ranges than other items.
Meh. Not worth the effort.
Imo, make it:
Rares: 6-7 random normal affixes.
Legendaries: 4-5 fixed normal affixes and a legendary affix (the “legendary affix” could in some cases just be one or more normal affixes you cant typically get in that item slot, or higher than normal affix ranges)
Legendary-rares (need a better name): You take a legendary item, and a rare item, and replaces the legendaries fixed normal affixes with the 4-5 of the affixes from the rare item (so 2 affixes are lost, for balance reasons obviously). Basically a “reroll” ability for legendaries, but one that requires you to find a rare item with the affixes you want, instead of just clicking 500 times on an NPC in town… It should of course require some expensive crafting mat (aka. basically add the legendary potion Blizzard talked about., but with a few changes as described above)
Mythics: 2-3 random legendary affixes, 2 normal affixes. Only one can be equipped.
Stat ranges should be the same for all the item types (again, outside of legendaries where higher stat ranges IS the legendary bonus).
Also, ranges on affixes should be SMALL for all items. The RNG on rares should be which affixes it have, not whether it rolled high or low.
I agree too. I don’t think legendaries have to have higher output from stats at all. But rather the legendary affix is what should set them apart. Make players choose raw output ba special modifiers that may not be as direct but powerful enough to make them needed.
One example I would use is in Last Epoch. There are these level 12 gloves called Bee Keepers Mitts. At least I have had 3 drop between level 12 and 32 and they are always the same level, maybe 17. But regardless, they spawn a swarm of bees. The stats are pretty low even for the current level, but through 40 levels I have found many bigger upgrades but the bees are so fun and helpful, I don’t want to see them out yet.
The devs also talked about the possibility to add a legendary affix to a rare item, then rare items would suddenly become the obvious choise if they always have better stats or more affixes. Either items showcased above would be great finds, lets say in the end game, but the legendary item would mainly be chosen due to the legendary affix. Thats why i think the legendary items should have the edge, but this dosent have to apply to every singel legendary. Maby just some
Yeh, that’s what i meant ofcourse
regardig the numbers of affixes we could discuss, I dont have a strong opinion about 4 or 5 or whatever.
We must be aware about mainly 2 things:
When I talk about the flavor of legendaries i meant that those type of items need to have some feature that makes them unique. Preferably some special stuff that you cannot extract as legendary power. it could be a particular combination of affixes, like based on fire dmg/resistance and so on.
If rare (or magic) can roll exactly the same as legandary, and in the same time you can put on them the legendary power…what is the difference between them?
I dont like that much because the rares (with 6-7 random affixes) will be the “new” legendary. I like the idea of 4-5 FIXED affixes on legendaries. in this we you can create the particular flavor I was talking about
Interesting mechanic, and I like the trade-off
peace \m/
Hm, why would rares become the new legendary?
Rares having 2 additional affixes is based on Blizzards claim that a legendary affix will approximately be worth 2 normal affixes - even though I dont believe they will manage to do that. But even if it turns out to be worth 3-4 affixes, it is easy to adjust numbers accordingly)
So:
Rare 6-7 affixes
Legendary 4-5 affixes + legendary affix
On average, they should be equally powerful.
Maybe you miss that in the current state of the game you can extract the legendary affixes and put it on a rare.
if in your case the affixes on the legendary (4-5) are the same as the ones on the rare, basically the rare become the new legendary. that’s why the 4-5 affixes on the legendary need to be different/unique. because if its not so the legendaries and rare become identical (or better: the rares, with 2 more affixes are way more powerfull and a powercreep version of the legs)
Noxious explains this very well:
from 45:00
No, my legendary-rare is exactly that, modified.
Removing 2 of the rares affixes, so the power gets back to what a legendary would be.
I agree with what you are saying here, in the case of affixes for your build, i would like to see more focus on «+x to a certain skill or to equipped skills», that way similar to D2, we get a clean increase in strength based upon the skills chosen by you in your own build. Then the rest of the affixes would be a bonus, lets say you need a weapon with attack speed, to better support your crushing blow build. Or you find a weapon with better base damage and no ekstra points to skills but have + 20 all res and life leach to help with needed survival. You might swap a weapon that have +2 to skills with a weapon that have better base damage and life steal in case of a melee build.
I get it, and I like it. because you modify the rare and you have a trade-off.
Im on board if the same mechanic is applied on rares when you put a legendary affixes on them. You can modify them, but you have a strong trade-off
I’d just remove that tbh. Dont really need both, since they would basically be the same.
My reason for modifying the legendary instead of the rare, was a previous thread, were people argued that an important part of a legendary was its art/design. By adding the rares affixes to the legendary instead, you keep everything else about the legendary, such as its art.
Yeah. I don’t necessarily like that. I would make it replace a random affix in the rare or make the legendary affix not as powerful after the transfer.
Yes, that would be a good trade off for adding a legendary affix
IF more balance is needed between legendaries and “legendary-rares” (which I dont really think is the case), then one simple option could be:
The new item, with the random normal affixes, always have minimum rolls on all the normal affixes (but again, affix ranges should be small).
So rares and legendaries would always be able to have slightly higher affix values, than a “legendary-rare”
A “legendary-rare” with the exact same affixes as a legendary, would then always be worse (or on par, if both are at minimum) than the legendary.
Problem with making the legendary affix weaker is that not all legendary affixes have power that is scalable (or rather, they shouldn’t have, as that would greatly limit legendary affix design)
The most powerful legendary affixes should at least be uniqe to that item, if all rare items can be turned into all legendary items, then whats the point of rares or legendary? There should be some difference, and I think legendary items should be the most powerfull, but having a great rare item to be best in slot until you find that legendary you seek is important. Something like affixes or the range of a certain affix that you can only get through that ilegendary in addition to a unique legendary affix.
My problem with that is that I think fixed affixes is going to limit builds too much.
Legendary items should definitely have fixed affixed when they drop. To remove RNG, and give legendaries a stronger identity.
But we need some way to change those legendaries to something else (as in random affixes), for more specialized or alternative builds.