This is my main gripe with PoE, and why I haven’t gone back to play it. I installed it started a character looked at the skills tree and was excited cus it was huge. I got about halfway through the game and realized I wasn’t doing things quite right for how I wanted to play. It was my first time really playing it. I wanted to change some things in my build and I couldn’t. The items to change your choices were extremely limited. The answers I got was to start over but makes sure to go to this website and use the build calculators. No thanks. Do not want.
3 Likes
Limited respec. Yes. I hope I can choose between using a Bow, Javelin, or Spear with my skill tree and talents on my Amazon such as in D2.
I hope I can choose which element and skills I specialise in such is was the case in D2.
I don’t feel like there was enough choice and depth in the D3 skill system to actually differentiate one barbarian from the other for example.
I can live with infinite respecs AS LONG as theres actually a large synergistic skill system that allows for weapon, playstyle, and spell specialisation that has significant effects on my strengths and weaknesses as a player.
3 Likes
Why do you base your enjoyment on what others do with their characters?
4 Likes
Its not even that. As I said above, what I’m really looking for is significant differentiation and skill/play style specialisation within classes. I feel it was missing from D3 and D2 did it better.
I can completely live with respeccing
1 Like
Honestly I like the ability to be able to respec. However, respecing willy nilly is bad and I agree with most of your points. I think POE handles respects very well. If you don’t know what I’m talking about, it’s basically very expensive and a huge pain in the butt to respec your character. If you mess your character up early it’s often just better to reroll. But you CAN still respec your character and I like that.
Well you wouldn’t get a lot of people to agree with you. I wouldn’t for one, neither does Blizz, even the suits from Blizz according to Kotaku wouldn’t agree with you. The look is part of that immersion for a lot of players. I would dare say at this point the majority of players judging by the sound of the crowd when they announced that D4 would be dark and gritty removing all of the cartoony graphics that D3 has put in.
As long as the mistakes are not baked into the game. Where the skills are designed as fluff skills. Where out of a handful of around 30 active skills only 10 are useful and three of them are attack skills. Which means only three viable builds in the game. Sorry but I want it where all skills are useful in some way.
I have had enough of the fact that skills even in this game are not viable due to nothing buffing them to the point of viability.
As long as the only mistakes that I can make are ones that come in the form of making the wrong choices in back up skills and gear then I will be fine. Designing a game where you have tons of skills, gear, along with a lot of other things as fluff. Things that are totally useless no matter how hard you try to make them useful just won’t cut it for me. That is regardless of whether you have a free respec system or not.
Free respec’ing in D3 is still open for debate whether it is true respec’ing or not. I now say it isn’t, even the game calls it that.
But with D4 I wouldn’t call changing your skills on your action bar as respec’ing because in D4 there will be skill points. Unless they remove skill points yet again I would dare say that changing your skills in the action bar is not respec’ing because if it is then D2 had a lot of respec’ing going on and everyone done it. There are only to keys to press for your skills and you had to keep changing the skills on your two keys while playing to be able to use all of the skills that you had available to you.
Skill point spending is permanent in D4. The only caveat is how long will it take to get all of the skill tomes needed to unlock all skills and max them.
Then you have to factor in will players really need to do that. I say unless the game is designed with that in mind then there won’t be a problem.
Again I will say that as long as the mistakes that I make are ones where I choose the wrong support skills and gear then I am happy. Don’t bake in the mistakes intentionally. Where the majority of the skills, talents, gear and the rest are just fluff. Something that is totally useless no matter how hard you try to make it viable. That is not the right way to make a game.
Why put so much time in designing that much stuff if it is there just for show. Where it is never meant to be used at all by anyone.
Think that choices in D3 don’t matter, well they do. Try this out for size. Take any character in this game and act as if you are a totally new player. Then take any collection of skills that sound like fun skills to play with. Then take any pieces of gear that seem like they would be great to use. You cannot use sets or LoD here to help you. Then take and put any legendary gems that sound like a good gem to a new player. Then see how far you will go in the GRs.
Just because you can change your action bar when you want to doesn’t mean that everything can be used. It doesn’t mean that any combination of gear and skills and runes will make a kick butt build that rocks in high tiered GRs.
There is more to role playing than just playing the build. D4 is going in the right direction there. Some players like yourself and others just can’t handle the freedom that D4 will give us. Where if we want to we can have as many skills to max that we want.
Another factor that you might not have considered. Some of the perks of certain skills might not be good for the build we want to use.
The sole identity of the character is not the build. Otherwise you can just name your character based on your build. Part of the immersion is that you are suppose to be playing a real character in a real world. If the build is the sole identity of that character. Then characters are just paper dolls that you spend points on and put gear on. They are nothing more nothing less to me.
You allow me and others to take what D4 is doing right now and run with it. I am sure that in time you will see that I have what it takes to put in my own limits to what I am doing with a character. Instead of being hamstrung by others that need their daddy dev to hold their hands because they cannot make limits for themselves.
Take two separate builds. I will use barb as an example.
Let’s say that that all skills have a total of four perks at max level. Then let’s say that primary skill A has a third perk along with the rest that is great for a WW crit barb that i want to play. Now the next build that I want to play is another WW build but this time I don’t want much crit on him because I want to make it a WW bleed build. So I only need the first two perks to do that. That means to use the same skill I need to re-roll and do it again.
As long as D4 launches with skill and talent points it should be fine. Unless they can come up with some sort of attribute system that will work I would dare say that attributes might be similar to this game. Unless the D4 devs figure out something better in attributes that is what is likely to happen.
Again isn’t this what happens when you learn the basics of a game. Unless you approach it as a new player with every build that you make. I don’t think so, after your first few builds in any game you will learn enough about the basics that you will know what determines a good build.
D3 is s game that you can still make mistakes, even though you can quickly change things to fix it. Just because you can make changes doesn’t mean that mistakes cannot happen.
If that is the case then either do what I said earlier or take an even more random approach. Set up a dart board for a barb. Then spin the dart board and start launching darts while it is spinning. Wherever the darts land is what skills you will use. Do the same with runes. Then like I said earlier don’t use sets at all or LoD. When you try to go as far as you can tell me how far you went in the GRs. I don’t think that you will go very far.
I don’t think that you would really want items in an inventory to truly take up the real amount of space they would in the real world. There would be no way of carrying anything at all except for a few items due to the sheer size of them. Then going back to town would be done almost every second.
You would pick up one or two items and tell everyone in the party wait I have to go back to town. And keep doing that for every item on the ground. No way would I want that.
What you also don’t know is that a lot of the weapons that would be of that Gothic period had different sizes. Not all two handed swords are the same size and weight. The same with all other weapons.
You will not have infinite inventory space. We will still have to decide what to pick up and what to leave behind.
Oh and is being able to hurl fireballs, teleport to town by means of a portal. Id items by a scroll all real world things. No they are not because those things don’t happen in life.
Think of D3’s book that is used for ID’ing things. It would be like looking things up in a book. A book that is huge and contains the names of many different items.
If you are needing to go back to town every few seconds then it won’t be that great of an idea. That is what would be realism if you were to put the real true size and weight of the items during the Gothic period. We would have to go back to a weight limit based on strength. That is not gonna happen.
I know you really think that you cannot make mistakes in D3 but you can still make mistakes in this game.
And yet you can’t wrap your head around the fact that respecing is an option
If you don’t like respecing don’t use it and your role play experience isn’t touched
But if you can’t follow your belief system in RPG and respec that’s on you and no one else
2 Likes
Skill/talent permanence was the best! THAT’S what gave the game endless replayability. I couldn’t agree more.
(Along with an amazing item system) this is the issue that will make or break the game for me. If Blizzard goes the D2 route here, they’ll have players coming back ENDLESSLY. They’ll never leave!
Or they can use the D3 model where you burn out on your character in less than a month because you’ve tried 99 combinations in a short period of time and
have completely exhausted the freshness of each class’ combat gameplay.
When you can respec your main build, you negate the need to level new characters.
People should LIKE the leveling process, and experimenting with builds then… But they shouldn’t only need 1 class at Max level to gain the full experience; it cheapens everything.
Once I played each class, and every set, skill, and combination (which doesn’t take long in D3), and all I had was rift grinding, the game sure got boring. Like, literally sleep inducing… And seasons just aren’t exciting enough on their own to draw me back.
In D4, I hope they focus more on the CORE GAMEPLAY MECHANICS, AND keeping each class FRESH for as long as possible.
Never leave? This is not the year of 2000 you know? We now have MMORPG, MOBA, battle royale, mobile game, hand console and tons of others. Customers are vastly different, yet you expect an old model of 20 years old will work? D2 players didn’t leave back then because they had such a limited number of alternatives to turn to. It’s utterly stupid to compare back then to now.
I’m surprised you’re not fired yet by your boss for keeping your work style for 20 years in an everchanging world. Sure there are core values that hardly change with time, but D2 is not one of them.
3 Likes
Couldn’t agree more. They did that same thing with WOW and it became every class speccing the same way because ‘there is only one way to play X class’ mentality is taking over. Vanilla, with its 51 point system, was way more in depth and led to interesting builds. Not this D3 plug and play style garbage.
1 Like
Yea, I kinda like the idea of while you are playing the feeling that you are unsure what skills/stats/talents to take and that you might mess up and have to re-roll your toon to “polish” your build.
This give much more replayability and a feeling of depth. Your actions have consequences and if you are not happy with the result you can leave a toon to toy around, maybe even do some parts of the game for a time being until you roll another, that “Perfect” version.
+1
1 Like
I got like a third of the way in before tuning out, and I only got that far because it’s such a dumpster fire train wreck of a post, you can’t help but wonder how it could possibly get even worse. This is parody-levels of entitled self-importance.
But I don’t care what people argue here actually, because I know in the end Blizz will still carry om with the decision that everybody will get all skills eventually. So yeah, there is absolutely no need for respec, you’re right.
If you don’t want to ever make more than 1 character for each class, please stick with Diablo 3 or World of WarCraft. There you can enjoy unrestricted respecs and be carbon copies of each other with 0 character identity and immersion.
4 Likes
This is indeed a good pointer.
1 Like
I don’t even play D3 these days. I go back to Grim Dawn instead. It has free respec that only cost 45 gold per point, but I still love theorycrafting and then create tens of characters to test how how theoretical planning fits reality. Sorry mate, your curse won’t apply to me.
Finally the troll has shown his true face. Flagged. Can someone lock this useless thread please?
2 Likes
Hopefully it will take at least as long as a ladder season (3 months). Non-ladder players can enjoy unlocking every skill.
I actually expect it to be much longer than 3 months, maybe 6, so that in a 3-month season you can’t possibly get all skills unless you do botting for skill tomes.
Dont make dumb sarcastic replies if you can’t handle dumb sarcastic replies…