???
Either there are 2 different “Salzwer” account with the same name here, or there are multiple users for the “Salzwer” account or the owner of “Salzwer” doesn’t remember he replied to the old post 20 hours ago before.
Weird.
Its not “i dont like it ppl should have it taken away” its “i dont like it, why aren’t the devs in tune with what myself and proveable by asking the world their opinion that my opinion is majority, that, the devs are both taking the wrong direction and not communicating with us, nearly enough or the right way”.
F/e “we did this” isn’t the same as “would you all like this in the game”.
They communicate what they already chose to do instead of involving us pre-choice.
But yea, ofc blizz knows any game they make will sell 5 bil in 2 seconds.
It’s because people want to pay that cost to check out the game, NOT that they are like “yup, this is D2 level good, im contractually down for 3-5 years of loving this”.
The old style rules have to get overhauled or should for the game to truly be loved. Meaning, “hey, sup, so, lets talk, before we make a choice, lets do something different than us deciding and you take it”.
If blizz was visionary enough to do that, and not just say “give us ur feedback” and then not timely or often or clearly communicate back to us, like chatroom style, well, that’s why we dont like how they handle game dev.
It reeks of “the avg person doesnt know what they want what features are good or bad in games” which is so untrue. i mean yea, fine, there’s many ppl that have low experience w a genre and throw out what they think are amazing ideas and are like always usually bad ones, but there’s also alot of ppl like me u and whoevs that spend about 300ish of the year thinking of a game and how to best dev it.
Ppl like us aren’t heard.
If they’d at least often-talk, or real-talk, or clearly-talk, on here, all the time, the direction for buying D4 changes from “ill check it out its worth the cost even if the game looks very mis-guided” to “they valued our opinion, clearly and proved that, like a doctor calling his patient on the phone (my dad used to do that allllll the time)” and if that were the type of TLC/respect blizz showed for “us”, id buy D4 for that reason alone.
Id buy D4 going “ill give this game 2 years no matter what bc they care” instead of “ill buy D4 for a year and check it out probs wont like it but it’s better than d3 ofc”.
Its like blizz could do more, on the comm side, and its so negative their ‘too busy’ approach they take. As we all know, the indie companies (like the actual ones) don’t have the money / artists blizz does so it’s like blizz is got this monopoly on good looking games and then they let their communication and dev choices be whatever bc they know it sells regardless of their quality.
We need more of that red shirt type ppl to get a wake up call into blizzard that their involvement of us is not nearly fair for how once a decade a game like this is. Like, making one sided choices and saying “look what we did” is not cool, when it’s clear they aren’t like totally open to talking about diablo 2.
I think there’s got to be this unwritten rule at blizz that “we dont speak of D2, EVER, bc, we dont want to upset brevik and them potentially accidentally, and if we did we could lose tons of fans or a lawsuit” like if that’s the case that ‘too risky to talk about’ approach makes devving D3/4 impossible to succeed bc if you can’t even mention the rocks of the series, out of fear, i mean, how can you study it.
Its almost like they pretend D1/2 didnt exist, and that is how i feel, and i feel its insanely insulting. Change the name from diablo 4 to “our new project 4” just make it a diff game if its nothing like 2 or talking about 2 is off limits.
I’m fully aware of this D2 vs D3 war, I’m just not taking sides.
Yes, D3 was a success and had good word of mouth… and bad one too, just not on the same subject. The game sold because most of the players are casual and just want a good campaign with exciting combat. On that D3 certainly has delivered.
On the other hand, people that didn’t like it wanted more depth and the feel of D2, which is as valid opinion too. It’s just too easy to dismiss them.
But yes, for sure D3 has found an audience beyond the D2 players. Which is a good thing imo for it means more people get attracted to the franchise.
That happens when you’re cherry-picking my words. You’ve “forgotten” about this:
Same degree of “optionallity” don’t mean 100% optional. Whimsy is an optional but optimal place for materials with the additional gripe of not being able to spawn it on-demand, so you can’t decide when to play it, just feel forced to take it whenever it appears. D2 cow level was as simple as going Tristram, pick a leg that didn’t require to kill a single mob and put it along a book that was close to free.
They’re not mandatory in order to complete the game, but ignoring them means that you’re missing a chance.
The average person, even the enthusiasts as a whole have no clue what they want. All you need to do is read any forum orTwitter thread to know opinions very greatly from group to group and person to person. If devs “listened”, which has become code for implement what I want to everyone gsmes would be a mess. I love to use the Homer Simpson car of video games metaphor because that is exactly what games would be.
Who should the devs listen to about skills/skill tree? I’ve seen at least 6 differing visions from players on this forum alone. They went from all skills obtainable and maxed to a skill tree that you may get 40% through. Both versions were loved, hated, and had mixed reviews.
What about itemization? Atk and Def being the main stats were once again were loved, hated, and hand mixed reviews. Then they added ADA to bridge that gap and the same thing.
Sets, legendaries, shared world, public events, keyed dungeons, classes, skills, yellows and blues, solo vs grouped, PvP, the list goes on and on of stuff players have varied and differing opinions about what they want.
At some point a dev needs to put their foot down on what they want and what they can change. Frankly, they have done a decent job of listening to feedback and implementing changes based on that within the game they want to make.
And really you are heard, you guys wanted to get rid of the skill system the way it was to limit what you could have. They did. You wanted less specific skill modifying legendaries like in D3, and they showed us some different types.
In the end they need to have some structure around what they want to do and lines that cannot be crossed. And frankly if it’s not to your liking then move on. Not every game has to appeal to everyone. I don’t go to FF forums and cry rives about how the devs slapped me innthe face with recent entries I do not like. I just move on.
As for communication, they do not have to at all. It’s not their jobs to ask us permission to do things to their game. Sure it’s nice when it happens, but we are not entitled to it. Maybe it’s because I’m older and come from a time when gsmes just dropped with no announcement. Maybe I just don’t care because in the end these are just disposable entertainment products. If they are good bonus, if not I move on to something new. No skin off my back.
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Thanks for your valuable apportation and your powerful reasons about the Whimsy vs Cow Level discussion we were having.
Lets check if when a post has the only purpose of being inflammatory and doesn’t even have a single other word about anything else, the button of marking posts as inflammatory has any use.
Making a whole post about me without adding anything to the discussion and saying that I’m desperate for attention because of replying twice when you have 5 times more posts than me clearly talks about who’s so desperate that failed that big to apply logic.
And yes, this is a post just about you, because I’m sick tired of some users feeling free to jump into personal attacks while some others get their posts deleted when just deffensively replying to them.
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That people and groups disagree with each other is not the same as the individual people not knowing what they want.
It is totally true that a game cant please everyone though, and it becomes a mess if it tries. That argument doesn’t work for the individual players however.
Unfortunately the new tree seems nearly as limiting as the previous system, just packaged in a prettier UI.
The legendaries shown so far looks very skill-specific actually.
True. It looks like Blizzard needs our feedback though. Which might be a shame. But it is what it is.
Because it’s not their job to involve the players in the design process. It’s their job to design the game.
If you want to be able to have input in the early stages of game development, then you need to go apply to Blizzard.
Also, Diablo 2 was developed without input from players. Further, the amount of players they could reach with such questions are far from a majority of potential players.
“They don’t do want we want.” =/= “They don’t hear us.”
That is accurate. The average person doesn’t know. All the confirmation you need for that is here on the forum.
Even the people who think a lot about it can’t agree. I doubt you and Cyonan agree on much. I know you and I don’t agree on much.
The thing is that doing more on the comm side ultimately wouldn’t satisfy you because you and some others won’t take anything except “design the game the way I’m telling you to” as confirmation that they listened. If they listen and then go another direction it’s the same as not listening.
Case in point to my last comment, really.
Again, that Cyonan and Thorodan doesnt agree, still does not mean they both dont have clear ideas of exactly what they want.
We dont need to agree. Compromises likely just lead to worse games.
Listening, and then drawing a conclusion, is not the same as drawing conclusions on a lack of data (not that Blizzard is necessarily doing that, even if they are not listening).
Is there any reason for you to bring up the post count now when I am simply pointing out that you were replying to the same post twice? If it wasn’t desperation for the attention, then why would you reply to the same post twice considering I didn’t say ANYTHING to your 20 hours ago post?
No I understand that. But from a design standpoint dev has to have a vision and parameters to stick to or else they game is not what they envisioned. Sure me as an individual knows exactly what I want. Guess what? No hame ever will be made to that degree unless I make it myself.
Every game has had stuff I did not like even my favorite games in the 40 plus years I’ve been playing videogames. So in a sense the devs have to come at making their game as if the individuals don’t know because they cannot kowtow to everyone.
Like we’ve discussed before, there will be hard lines the devs cannot cross and flexibility in other spots. Thise are the areas players have some avenue to force change. But again, some will like it, some won’t, and some won’t really care. There is no perfect game that everyone will agree on. So it really doesn’t matter.
People say Blizzard is trying to please everyone and making everyone upset in the process. I think they are weighing the feedback and trying to make changes where they feel they can all while trying to be different enough from the previous games.
We know many here would rather see a D2 clone. Most here want them to take the best features from previous games and iterate on them for D4. But there lies the rub, what are the best features? No one really agrees on any if this.
I’m 400 posts, it’s obvious that I don’t care about post count, you were clearly tryng to find something to bash me instead of talking about Diablo.
Leave me alone.
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I mean
If you look at the first version of the game, they presented at blizzcon, do you really think it would become a good game if they just did what they think is nice?^^
Agree. They listened back when the “buff instead of nerf” was the trend and here we have the power creep, they listened when people asked for double legendary drop rates becoming permanent and here we have them raining from the sky.
This is why I always say that devs need Diablo experience in order to know what to do and what NOT to do.
I never say that you care about the post count though. Since when wanting attention = want higher post counts? 
Says the guy replied to the same post twice. If anything, your action indicated that you don’t want to leave me alone first. 
Again, OK if you want to talk about Diablo, otherwise
LEAVE-ME-ALONE
WTF is this guy allowed to harass me?
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I would say click on his profile and set his profile to ignore, however it appears that ability is missing with hidden profiles. 
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Yea. But that’s just my opinion. I’d rather be able to experiment with builds as I please. That is still a possibility, you just have to plan it out a bit differently this go around.
[I am so excited about Diablo 4 - #6 by BANASIK-21794]
The last paragraph from the OP sums up the ‘‘Point’’ precisely.
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That’s not why we have the power issues we have today. For the majority, an infinite paragon system and sets that were buffed to get people to try those builds. They have done plenty of nerfing. Just look at all the PTR threads with people crying about the words to new sets and stuff before the release.