Diablo 4 Runewords why not have it all and more

yyaaa i hear ya, either the drop rate must be high enough for the solo player to experience the asembly off rune words, or make 1/3 of the runes cubeable with certain matirials xD

it would kinda upen up for trading Runes for Items chanels againā€¦
Still remember D2 channels like ā€œhave Pgems need Itemsā€ hahah xD :stuck_out_tongue:

The problem with enigma was just that the spell teleport was free on its own.
If teleport had had for example max charges that reset on CD, it could have been balanced, as well as needing more ressources since Insight, Sojs, magefist and Shako increased your ressources and ressource regen way too much.
Still an enigma without faster cast rate was pretty bad tbh.

Jow Lolli, new idea.

3 Rune types

Condition Rune
Like before

Booster Rune that would
Sacrifice : Boost Effect but at life Cost
Rush : adds speed to the abillity at the cost of cooldown to the trigger
Empower : Buff x second followed by x second off debuff
Vision : Adds Aoe(or bigger AOE) Effect but with Delayed Activation.
Zealous : Multiply Effect ( Repeating every x seconds x times ) af Resource Drain

Effect Rune
Like before

if we then had 20 Condition runes and 20 Effect Runes would we would in a simple 3 socked item have 2000 combinations just by using 1con 1boost 1Eff rune :stuck_out_tongue:ā€¦ and i dont even want to do the math at 6 sockets with 3 lvl to each Effect rune xD xD muhahahha

Itā€™s not really a matter of if the ability could be balanced or not but the fact that now a Sorceress specific ability needs to be balanced around every class in the game being able to access it.

Iā€™d prefer my abilities to be balanced around what I can do, not what an entirely different class is capable of when theyā€™re given access to my abilities.

So say, if the sorceress had no teleport would you argue for it be viable?

I dont think the sorceress class needs a major nerf just because every other class can get that item - she can stay as she is without getting a major nerf compared to the teleport itself granted by an item.
If say for example teleport can be maxed either by a passive talent tree or skilltree (if they ever add a skilltree) grants you for example lesser mana cost per level or benefits that another class cannot gain by getting the spell teleport itself.
This way that teleport spell of hers stays unique.

Why does anybody else need to have the ability in the first place?

If youā€™re going to go through the trouble of making a bunch of classes, the primary reason for doing so being to create strong unique thematics, why would you undermine that by handing out a bunch of abilities to other classes?

If youā€™re going to do that, just make a classless system or a pseudo-classless system like PoE did.

1 Like

They dont have to.
Its just to increase the possibilities/freedom of customization that the game allows you to make.
Why get a skill that is anyways stronger in a sorc?
Will i benefit if i get teleport? it will not be impactful but you have the freedom to build your character as you desired just like in D1 everyone had theoritically access to every spell (reading books required mana so with + all attributes books you could learn all spells).
Did it make sense for the Warrior or Rogue? Not at all, yet it was still allowed.

If you want to maximize freedom though just go with a classless system. Thatā€™s what a classless system is specifically designed for.

A class system is designed to make each class actually feel unique and have their own style. It undermines it if you go around handing out the abilities to everybody else.

Iā€™m not saying itā€™s inherently a bad idea to do something like what Diablo 1 did where everybody can get everything, but if thatā€™s what youā€™re going to do then design the system for that.

Donā€™t design a system for something else then undermine it.

1 Like

The classless system is not truely the case for PoE though.
Even though everyone can get the skills that they want to, it still makes sense to go for a specific class build because of the ascendancy classes which make classes feel rather unique as you said.

I do think that in Diablo should not strictly go as far as PoE does and every class should represent what they actually are meant to, but the freedom of build to allow characaters to use other classes spells does not hurt anyone.

Thatā€™s why I called PoE a pseudo-classless system. Itā€™s not quite there, but itā€™s on the doorstep.

PoE also has less uniqueness than a game with a full class system, especially with the Scion being able to mimic most builds that other characters can do. I can build a full necromancer build without being a Witch if I want to.

Granted itā€™s not a bad system and thereā€™s plenty of benefits they get with how they do things.

Like I said: If they want to focus on freedom of builds then by all means do that, but build the system from the ground up to do that. Donā€™t build the system for something else and try to shoehorn it into what you really wanted.

If theyā€™re going to go with strict classes, then keep the classes strict.

1 Like

I agree.
Classes must feel unique from the start (regarding skills), whatever comes next along the way could be made for example from itemization possible, while not being a necessity and just an option of preference or utility, but at the same time not necessarily hurting the class and fitting their genreā€¦ for example if you build a melee sorceress through magic with enchant and being able to earn vengeance (elemental damage fits a sorceress) from paladin.
I believe that Diablo 2 managed to do that before 1.10 runewords, after that it went out of balance.

Here is an out of the box one, what if you have Angelic, Demonic and Ancestral power items items, but without the points to activate some of them, or as some people have said under a breakpoints to get something. You are using it anyway as it fits the build but with a Rune effect of when X unlock X Angelic, Demonic or Ancestral power, this could tip you over to the next breakpoint, but just for a short boost.

Lock them in and with a payed option to unlock them just like gems where in D3, but the kicker is you use them in a way when planing to go to a Keyed Dungeon, this combo gives me an effect against the Fallen or what ever family of monster is in there.

One last thing I would not like it is if Runes in D4 become the Grift of D3, itā€™s the best source of power so thatā€™s what everyone wants. as the devs have said your source of power should come from many places.

I have a good idea i will make a new post after work :slight_smile:

1 Like

Just say no, anything D2 is just a bad idea because it is an old antiquated system that needs to stay in the past. D4 needs to learn from all the modern ARPGs and find a new path that is 100 times better than anything D2 offered.

:slight_smile:

Ya your right, who even have time to play pc nowadays, okay lets brain storm how about we make a Diablo mobile game hmmm wait a minute!!! :stuck_out_tongue:

Okay okay, rants aside you make a valid point we need to learn for modern age ARPGs but i still think the Rune system could be optimiced to make the game fun and full of different option and paths to go down :smiley: we just need the options, not saying Runes is a must have in every build, but that it just adds to the customizationā€¦

Lets say you f-hated every time you meet an elite with Molten abl. you would almost die instantly, due to lack of fire resistā€¦

Rune Condition when Burned trigger next socketed Rune
Rune Effect, gain a (5xArcane power) Damage Barrier ( Retrigger 10 sec Cooldown )

as a temporary fix this would be a cool option to haveā€¦

how about you, if you had to put the ā€œyes hatā€ on what would be a cool thing to see with rune effects :stuck_out_tongue:

Yup, this is spot on. Donā€™t have items limited to combat, make them part of the world, part of the ā€œdarknessā€.

Iā€™ll steal somebody else idea (Shadout) because itā€™s quite simple and add a lot of possibilities (And I donā€™t remember wich post it was).

  1. Add a third possibility to rune: Trigger - Effect - Empower (Wich boost Effect rune)
  2. Increase the number of socket on Legendaries and Rare to up to 3, Blue up to 4-5 and white 5-6.

Now you can choose on Legendary/Rare with 3 sockets:

  • Trigger - Trigger - Effect (If you have a really good Effect and want it Up more often)
  • Trigger - Effect - Effect (If you have a Trigger that is easy to achieve so you can keep 2 effects Up, cannot stack the 2 same effect)
  • Trigger - Effect - Empower (If you have a really important Effect for your build and want to increase his power/effect)

Blue and White item will also be useful. With so many socket slots, they can also be BiS for your build if your build focus a lot on runes.

And finally, bring back some Runewords (Unique item created by using a certain combinations of rune into a specific type of White item with the right number of sockets.) Something like 20-25 items with different level of power and a few (2-4) really strong GG items really hard to get.

1 Like

Nice ideas, i wrote earlier about i similar system to change the effects in different ways :stuck_out_tongue:

were having a debate over on
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/d3/t/runewords-are-very-possible-within-the-new-system/10313/2

if the unique runeword items should have main stats and stuff or the unique runeword only should be an empowerment of the effect of the combined rune :smiley:

1 Like

Yeah nice! Thatā€™s exactly those kind of Empower effect that could be great on Effect rune. Your example are good. I like when a Strong Positive effect also bring a negative counterpart, but you have find ways to reduce that counterpart and optimise the Positive boost.

Good job !