Which is why these specific monsters are “elites”, meaning they have mastered something their peers can’t.
I agree, this is something that should be in D4. There were some of them in D3 too : Avengers, Juggernaut, Teleporter…
But normal monsters should also be stronger to start with, so every encounter can be dangerous and not just the elite ones. The imbalance between the two categories is why so many changes were made to D3’s traits.
Such is running past a double/triple immune because you can’t hurt it. ^^ At least in D3 you can kill them if you play smart.
This is also the case in D2 though.
Just get a lower res wand with charges from vendor like akara or drognan, a paladin with conviction aura in your party or get for yourself or merc infinity and problem solved.
Play prepared and smart.
Eh, having abilities that their kind wouldn’t normally have wouldn’t make them elite. It would make them a new species or variant of their kind. An elite would be more of someone who had mastered a skill well above their peers, and again since the Fallen Brutes are melee fighters, there could be plenty of ways to show their elite versions improved abilities without lessening their monster identity. For example give their elite variant’s either improved attack range or splash damage, so that their melee attacks would hit not just you but your nearby allies as well. Or have their battle cries also inflict a status debuff on you also, whereas a normal fallen brute’s battle cries wouldn’t do such a thing.
No one’s against that. What the op is asking for doesn’t clash with that notion. All monsters should be dangerous, with elite monsters being more dangereous.
Keep in mind, it wasn’t just the elite monster traits that were nerfed in Diablo 3, but also individual monster abilities. For example the corrupted angels in act 4 used to be able to create shields around themselves to reduce elemental damage, this ability was later removed. Same thing happened with the sucubus, they used to be able to reduce player’s armor by 35%, but this effect was removed later on.
Yup, we still have those fat mages that shield themselves, the Morlu mages that cast that meteor like spell, those fat frost mages with the cold swath, thebrock guy with his mini mortar, and many more.
I think part of the problem is no one remembers what D3 was like before the insane power creep and before they knew everything in the game, so of course everything seems pretty simple and easy nowadays.
So browsing vendors or being forced to MP (if you have a friend available) before playing…
Of course there are builds to overcome multi-immunes… hence making them rather pointless, except for forcing the player into less build variety.
Same in D3.
That’s very subjective. Playable classes are humans, yet most of humanity doesn’t cast meteors from the sky or change into werewolves.
I didn’t know that ! But doesn’t that contradict your statement about the specific imbalance of elite traits ?
Also, Act 4 and 5 monsters are much more dangerous than the others.
They should have designed individual Elite/Champion special ability/ies upon individual design of every single monster (if they considered this monster CAN be an elite one - because, you know, there are rats or bulls or those hedgehogs or toads or small spiders or smth else too primitive and stupid for being an Elite).
Copying D3 elite affxies is just a LAZY DESIGN.
I think they still have time to do that if they really care for their game. If they don’t care, we will see D3 copypasta.
Exactly, abilities like those only belong to humans of certain clans and/or training. It’s the same with monsters, not every demon should be able to use magic related abilities (elite trait or not), especially if said monster isn’t even magic oriented.
Not really, because my only statement regarding monster balance was Blizzard had nerfed or removed monster abilities in the past.
Act 3 succubi had their curse nerfed as well. It no longer debuffs player armor. Also, Diablo 4 isn’t going to be utilizing acts, so monsters (hopefully) will be equally dangerous in all 5 regions.
Amen! New game, new affixes please. Also, more affixes and more interesting ones that make sense to the monster we’re fighting. I.e. How did that quill rat learn “Rotating laser beam?” LMAO
Yet any human can join a clan, if accepted. And fallen do have magic.
But I agree they should rename the system to better tune with the world’s fantasy. Enchanted, Posessed or Corrupted… something alluding to Hell’s power affecting a creature.
I looked back to why you brought that up in the first place and I think there’s a misunderstanding. ^^ I was arguing that character classes can’t have all skills at once because of balance (but also energies, unique system, passives etc. all things characteristic to a class), unlike elite monsters.
Sure if they’re accepted, but not any human can learn, use, or master a clan’s teachings and/or ways. Some will lack either the talent and/or capability to even utilize such techniques and no amount of training will help them bridge the gap. Take Malah from Diablo 2 LoD for example. She sought to follow the way of the Sorceress, however her powers never grew beyond simple spells despite her efforts. As such she settled to be a healer instead and focused her craft on healing and apothecary and while she hinted interest at learning from the Diablo 2 sorceress, we don’t know if that ever came to pass.
The fallen shamans possess magic (hence they should have magic oriented elite traits), not the fallen imps nor overseers.
You may be right.
Well even if we separate monsters elite traits by the monster type, that doesn’t mean every elite type monster would need to have the same elite traits, so that shouldn’t be a problem either.
For example, one elite fallen shaman could have the elite traits: Multishot, Enhanced Speed, Enhanced Health, and Horde; while another elite fallen shaman could have the elite traits: Fire Chains, Molten, Enhanced Damage, and Desecrator.
Those elite traits would allow the Fallen Shamans to battle differently, however they also wouldn’t lessen the monster’s identity as the first elite fallen shaman would be pet/army centric while the second elite fallen shaman would be more magically offensive. Neither of which would take away from the Fallen Shaman’s in game and lore identity.
Yes, so wouldn’t every Fallen brute, just an elite.
But I don’t mind calling that differently like I said. And why not have elite traits on top of it ?
Right now, elites only have one power in D4. Let’s imagine they can have one trait AND one corruption effect :
Traits increase stats based on the monster’s abilities. As an example, Multishot for archers, Teleport for mages, Poisoned Weapon for brutes, Very Fast for swarm, and all can have Increased Health, Juggernaut, Horde etc.
Corruption is an effect that is not controlled by the monster and occurs randomly in his presence, like Frozen, Mortar, Electrified, Shielding, Health Link, Wormhole…
That way the concept of an elite monster would be reinforced, plus the fantasy of Hell pouring through them, keeping the gameplay of harder and highly random encounters.
Or, how about the Devs design affixes based on monster types?
Humanoids pull from X pool of affixes
Demons/Undead pull from Y pool of affixes
Beasts pull from Z pool of affixes
Insectoids pull from W pool of affixes
etc…
Create a pool of 10+ affixes per monster group they can each pull from.
Adding to that, monsters within each group can be divided further to only pull affixes from their pool that make sense I.e.
Humanoid Mages can only use XY affixes
Humanoid Melee can only use YZ affixes
Humanoid Ranged can only use ZA affixes
Demon/Undead Mages pull from ZB affixes
Demon/Undead Melee pull from…
Well I think you get the point. This method makes so much more sense than quill rats and horned chargers summoning rotating laser beams. lol
honestly i dont need it at all
it just always feels off
i dont care for a giant maggot to one time drop poison pools and one time spit bugs or what ever
just design good monsters and let me fight them
seriously
the “variety” also becomes all the same after a few hours
Not even an elite Fallen Brute would know things beyond what their kind are capabile of. An Elite Barbarian who mastered every known martial and weapon skills his clan has to offer wouldn’t be able to properly learn, use, and/or master Druid shapeshifting techniques or attune with nature to command it’s might as a Druid would despite them being of kin to one another.
As I said a while back, for monsters to have the elite abilities that wouldn’t be possible for their kind; they would need to either be a different variant and/or subspecies or at least use a different model that shows has their visual appearance matches said abilities, especially if we’re talking about a corrupting force like the power of hell coursing through them. For example, monsters with arcane beams should have arcane runes etched on their body and their bodies should have cracks that surges with arcane energy. The lore behind said monsters would be that they were weaponized test subjects that gone rogue. The same would need to be done for the other elite traits that don’t match with a base monster, if not, then they shouldn’t have elite traits randomly given to monsters then.
Honestly, you don’t need monsters with random abilities to make the gameplay harder, and if anything doing it that way puts more reliance on elite traits to make monsters more dangerous, which means that the threat comes less from the monster and more from their elite trait. As for random encounters, that should only feel that way during a player’s early playthrough, when they’re first exploring the world and unfamiliar with it. Afterwards, players should have a good idea of what they’re about to face.
That’s because he chose to join Barbarians instead of Druids in the first place. Like a Fallen that learned Arcane beam cannot necessary use Orbiter too.
Also, in D2 Barbarians could Shapeshift… even Teleport. ^^
And who knows what Fallen are capable of ? They may be smarter than we think…
Actually that’s something I wanted in D3. To know the powers of the elite before he uses them, we have to hover the mouse over them and read all 4 affixes. Not always easy with some fast enemies !
So yes, some kind of effect or color to signal the Corruption on the monster would be nice.
Absolutely, but it helps creating peaks in difficulty. In D2, the most dangerous encounters are Uniques with just the “right” traits (but the other monsters around can add up greatly to the threat, hence the need to rebalance in favor of normal enemies) and those can happen a long time after finishing the game in Hell for the first time.
Even if he joined the druids instead, if he doesn’t have the affinity toward Nature that Druids are born with, then he wouldn’t be able to use most of their powers.
Unless the fallens has affinity toward the arcane arts (which for the most case isn’t possible), they shouldn’t learn either.
Via runewords, items that have no impact and/or presence in the lore…
Being smart doesn’t equate to being magically attuned. If they don’t have any affinity towards magic (which they don’t except for the Fallen Shamans), then they shouldn’t be able to use magic.
Honestly with the exception of a few uniques (like those who possessed conviction aura or amplify curse), I felt that most of the dangerous encounters in Diablo 2 were normal enemies rather than uniques. For example the oblivion knights in act 4 when they had the ability to cast iron maiden on players, which made it difficult for many melee builds to take them on unprepared.