At least none that were supposed to be RPG’s (I do not play shooters, seems they often get new maps and such, still not real content) and what I have seen from the D4 combat made me very worried for the RPG part in ARPG in D4 and without that D4 will become in the end just like D3 an action game with some RPG elements you can also find in Super Mario and I would not call that an ARPG either.
Besides we all know it is content that is most expensive to create, so that will be pretty unlikely to be a major focus during the life services, but a focus of the expansions unfortunately for which we will have to pay separately anyway. So no, I am not looking forward to the social content of the life services for me, above the normal risk that every game can be badly made whatever the format .
Well they might try to do a version of RMAH that is FTC proof with money you cannot take out of the game but they do sell to players and profit from. The XP boost is just another thing, but it could include a ilvl 50 weapon if average world is at ilvl 60 to make new players level a bit faster after campaign and catch up.
In D3 you could compare that to buying those lvl 70 legendaries from Haedrig you can unlock after a fast carry to 70.
Sure it is. Whethere the game is free or has a box cost, calling other leeches is shaming them. It insinuates they should be paying for optional stuff and if they don’t they are some how lesser people or are hurting the game by not “supporting” it.
They do and they do let others pay for them. That there is by now a whole industry built around it to profit from it does not change the underlying truth is that you let others pay for your pleasure and if continue that for a longer period without giving anything substantial in return that is leeching or mooching even from your friends even if giving in return does not have to be monetary between friends. Now just be glad some people are still willing to do so, instead of that you have to pull your own weigth. That is where the whole free to play business or fixed price with MTX is based around, with most of time some gambling thrown in as well since it is known most humans like a gamble. Where devs actually use you to make others spend more and try to get you to spend as well through trickery. If you do not believe me, then why did all those f2p games close down when the whales or other MTX buyers did not buy enough anymore, it did not stay open for those f2p players or even the high payers from past?
Like that whale that was laughing all the way to the bank while humiliating those free players. Well at least he got his or her worth out of his/her payments so they could play game for free or mostly free like a few 100. Just like paying for your poorer friends drinks gives many people a good feeling they can do something good for their friends as a bit more friendly example.
Changing skill designs also destroys skill identities imo.
But given the sad world we live in, I guess I can “accept” both selling cosmetic items and spell effects. As long as there is an option to turn of other players cosmetics on your screen.
Yeah, it is completely fine to increase game prices.
I will gladly take $100+ games over having games be infected by pathetic P2W any day of the week.
Just dont make a live service game. Release a finished game. And sell expansions if you want to. Live service tends to be trash.
Through that strategy we still stuffer the badly made games that was designed as live services however.
Blizzard is not the most trustworthy company currently.
Okay, but seriously, there are some bad arguments running wild in here. Let me show you two examples:
There are many more examples of bad arguments, but these two will do for the moment. Please understand: older, traditional models wherein consumer goods are sold at fixed price points are not outdated, not broken. They work. What I mean is this: You can make a game, sell it for a single fixed price point, and then make expansions and sell those at fixed price points, too. You can even sell content packs where the product sold merits the cost.
Even a company as large as Blizzard can do all of this and thrive. Remember, they also make large amounts of revenue from things like Blizzcon, merchandise, licensing their properties (remember that Warcraft movie, heh heh), and so forth. My point is that if you cut out any and all MTX models from every Blizzard product–and yes, I mean cut them all out, even cosmetics–the company would still make more than enough money to do everything they need (and likely want) to do.
MTX, P2W, and other predatory monetization models are not about making sure a company thrives, much less survives. They’re not about making enough money. They’re about making all the money so massive bonuses and payouts go to shareholders, investors, the board, and the CEO. They’re about absolutely unchecked greed, about milking a market until there’s blood in the pail, and then milking some more.
Blizzard does not, has never, and will never need to use MTX/P2W models–not for “live service” products (which is a whole other can of worms), and not for stand-alone products.
They simply want to.
And when the cash comes in, remember, it’s not going to the developers, the CMs, the marketers, the PR people, and so forth. It’s going to the folks who already make more than everyone else, the richest of the rich and the ultra-richest of the rich.
Folks, if you think cosmetic MTX in D4 is fine, you’re wrong. It’s little different from the more sinister P2W crap found in D:I–unnecessary, and driven by little more than greed. Think about it this way: Instead of cosmetic MTX, why not simply create content around those cosmetics? Instead of buying this or that armor skin, why not create a small but uncomplicated quest line in which your reward is (among other things), a randomly-generated set of cosmetic drops? Why not bake cosmetics into the game’s systems?
And for the record, it is highly unlikely that D4’s MTX will be limited to cosmetics.
I know some of y’all are just stating the facts when it comes to Blizzard’s decisions and the realities of big corporations in late-stage capitalism. I get that. But some of y’all are stans for corporate greed, willing to excuse an awful lot in the name of profit and growth, and that’s not okay. Corporations aren’t your friend–never were, never will be.
Uh, what?
Diversity in the workplace is extremely important, and Blizzard is in dire need of overhauling their workplace culture.
No. I’m saying that I would rather pay for a full experience, finish the game, move on to the next expansion/game. Yes, they will fix bugs and balance things after launch. I know it’s a live service game. I’m saying I don’t care for that because it usually ends up like crap.
The games story has not advanced that far. Yet, we are stuck with the latest one for 10 years. Cause they wanted to “live service” it.
Blizz is prolonging something that doesn’t need to be prolonged. I also said that they would release part of the game, sell it as the “full” experience, then sell the missing parts as DLC or expansions. This is bad.
It’s also bad for them not to be transparent with their consumers. If it costs more to make the game as a one and done, then let them come on the stage and say so.
But I’m not up for paying full price for a mediocre game just because they will “live service” the game. I don’t want another D3. People actually thought that seasons and the crumbs they sprinkled was “free” content. Putting Stash space behind seasons was scummy. This is how desperate they were for something new when in actuality they were being strung along with the promise of content.
Blizz is obsessed with keeping their games alive for as long as possible and always online.
This is correct but has nothing to do with my post. They work, yes. But you know what works better? MTX.
You can do that. It doesn’t work as good as a model in which all players have access to all content and players can opt into MTX as they see fit. The second option earns more money, and it doesn’t split the playerbase for things like matchmaking.
They’ll thrive even more using MTX.
And of course 90% of the company’s employees that no doubt have stock options, 401k matching, fully paid benefits, and individual things I’m probably forgetting.
Welcome to literally every single business in the history of ever? “You don’t need to sell at the markup that you’re selling at, you want to so you can make more money.”
like… duh? Blizzard has always done this. Did they ever stop charging for a game after they broke even and funded the development for their next game? Sounds like unchecked greed to me.
I would love for you to quantify this and explain how I’m objectively wrong.
This is where I call BS. Someone buying a funny hat for their character that doesn’t impact me at all is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from me joining a battleground and getting crushed by someone that paid for power. One has nothing to do with me (not sinister) and the other actually impacts my experience (actually sinister).
Edit: I want to address one part of your quote that stuck with me:
You people don’t seem to get it. You don’t get to have a Diablo game anymore unless investors/shareholders are happy. That’s it. That’s the end of the discussion. If Diablo games aren’t making enough money to make shareholders happy, you don’t get another Diablo game. So, either play Diablo 4, or find a different game. Regardless of what you do, it’s going to have a monetization scheme that you don’t like.
And then people like me that don’t have that kind of money to spend on games are no longer able to enjoy them. Seems to me that you want games to be only for the wealthy, or at least reasonably well off. Since buying games today is a gamble at best I just can’t see myself shelling out so much money on one game.
You’re right, I won’t speak to you ever again in case I say something that might hurt your feelings. I’m already at risk by replying to you. In case you missed it, the poster called your btag AND theirs stupid. Why not ask why it’s stupid. I would hazard that you don’t even know what ODT is. You probably assumed one thing when it means something else. You are right that they shouldn’t have called your btag stupid, and simply should’ve said, “thanks”.
Did you sell your Gamer Soul to buy the funny hat? If Blizz can’t hack it without MTX, then they deserve to go down and someone else buy the Diablo license.
Don’t forget this is the legendary Blizzard. You’re essentially saying Blizz can’t make games that sell without MTX.
You don’t seem to understand. This “Blizzard” you’re talking about doesn’t exist anymore. It hasn’t existed for a long time. All those people that made Blizzard have moved on. This is ActivisionBlizzard.
Nowhere did I defend investors. What are you talking about? Re-read everything I said.
No investors, no financing, no games. I’ll tell you a secret. Corporate investors don’t micromanage companies. Other than to invest or divest they don’t make any decisions whatsoever. These days it’s mostly mutual funds trading money from ordinary people’s retirement accounts.
That means, D4 isn’t a D4 we would want. And I do understand, thus me making Blizzard italicized.
I don’t care about the investors nor trying to make them happy, because they are not trying to make me happy. They are trying to take as much as they can from me without giving me a quality product. They are forcing the dev’s and the ones that direct them to make a game that has to stoop so low as to add MTX and gambling.
I said this before. Blizz needs to disintegrate and become indie, funded by fans of the devs that made once great games.
I’m mostly here in the D3 forums to educate the fools that think gambling and MTX are ok. Especially when there is plenty of money to go around to make a great product. I’m not here, in hopes that someone at Blizz or the Bean Counters will change their ways if they read any of the posts that sound the alarm and champion the cause for good gaming.
Good?
Let’s pretend I believe you: That’s worse than I thought, and Blizz should crash and burn.
Yeah. There seem to be this idea that investors in general are discussing with the CEOs how to run these businesses from day to day. Investors are boogeymen. Just like ATVI often is a boogeyman for Blizzard. Blizzard created many of their own problems. They didn’t need ATVI for all of them (though definitely some of them), nor did they need investors for pretty much any of it.
Which of course doesn’t mean investors dont matter, companies make decisions based on what might please or attract investors, obviously. That is quite different from the investors making the decisions though. Boards, CEOs, middle-managers etc. are the ones to blame here.
ATVI and other gaming companies know investors are clueless about gaming. Most investors themselves are perfectly aware that they are clueless about gaming. You invest in companies you believe are less clueless than yourself, so why would you try to micromanage them.
(of course there are investors who invest specifically because they do want to influence things, or even build toward a takeover, but those are the tiny minority).
That really is the conclusion here (and in many other places) imo. Blame Blizzard for Blizzards mistakes. Not someone else. Blizzard, and ATVI, created the current situation.
That is where the whole free to play business or fixed price with MTX is based around, with most of time some gambling thrown in as well since it is known most humans like a gamble. Where devs actually use you to make others spend more and try to get you to spend as well through trickery. 
move.
