But wait, there’s more. I continue to argue your point in other posts.
If you’re a real gamer, no game from non-indie developers is really playable on launch anymore.
What if you could have a transmog system in the game similar to D3. Where you can have a look that you want while at the same time you get the power from the items that you are wearing. Where you could unlock transmogs as you find pieces of gear along with leveling.
You might not mind having a system where the gear that you find makes it look like someone puked on your character but others do.
They are like an optional subscription. The traditional MMO monetization would mean that you have to pay a sub or you cannot play. That is not what we have here nor should we.
In D4 they could add new zones to explore, dungeons to find and conquer, new classes to explore, etc… Sure the non expansion content wouldn’t be as big as an expansion but still it would be something extra that would be something that players could do while waiting for the next expansion.
So you want it to go back to where it was for you. A one and done game, then when you are finished with what you want to do with the game you move on to the next game. Where D4 is in instant maintenance mode on launch. Well that is not what we are getting.
Are you sure? Evidence proves otherwise.
Yeah and that might well be a pity. A really well one and done type of game beats a badly done life service game every day of the week and year in my opinion and experience. Unless devs are really prepared to create serious content and not just another mode, reworked set and such, Then better put that time in a great expansion. Besides for an ARPG I do fear for the RPG part in the live services updates, I suspect they will just not be there, just the endgame bs of the action part.
So for me it will likely be one and done until the next big expansion anyway.
1 Like
No, Rod Ferguson said the cash shop would be “anchored in” cosmetics. That’s not an exclusionary statement, and Blizzard has already proven their absolute willingness to use slimy manipulative language in order to deceive their fans. The fact this could have been stated in no uncertain terms and wasn’t – that is evidence of p2w.
2 Likes
Nah not evidence, just it means they do want to keep some options somewhat open with game still a year away. 
It is not proof they will include it, just that they are looking if some things could be somewhat acceptable also around Trade I suspect and if and in sofar as they allow trade it can profit them as well.
Right, they’re not sure how p2w they’re going to make it yet. That’s my point, really. What was said is meaningless.
1 Like
I completely disagree with you. Either optional sub or expansions or mandatory subs. Nothing else is okay with me anymore and I will not purchase the games if they have cosmetic mtx of any kind that isn’t a “fundraiser” like support Ukraine, e.g.
Take a long hard look at the store in World of Warcraft, that store is not okay with me, which is why I stopped paying my sub.
If you want mtx for cosmetic and you think that’s fine, then that’s fine for you. Not for me and I will not be buying those games anymore. A line has been drawn.
2 Likes
Well in a way just see it as a dev seeing the bonfire some of his colleagues reaped with using the name of a franchise that his new game also takes place in trying to take some concerns away and bad influence that has on the hype for his own game that it will not be even close in monetization. That is the context of the remark, no more and no less.
It is no guarantee one way or the other I suspect.
Well I would see it that way if I had any reason to trust this company. But they’ve used deceptive language like this in the past on purpose to manipulate us. Just 5 months before Diablo Immoral launch, Chang was out there pretending gear means something and how we won’t be able to advance gear power through money. It was meant to make people feel less guarded about p2w levels. Meanwhile it’s one of the most p2w games in history. So they’ve already shown they’re willing to bend us all over with manipulative language – not because they’re unsure of the future, but because they think of us as only potential revenue and nothing more. They want more of our money. That’s their only motivation.
1, they did. The said they are designing D4 to be a GaaS. The magority of us understand what that means, which is why they are offering optional cosmetic MTX.
2, a large portion of players will skip D4 if it’s priced at $100 even if Blizzard laid out the reasons such a high price. MTX is a much better solution. If tou want to pay more you can, if you don’t, you don’t have to.
3, they do have faith. They wouldn’t say they plan to support it woth content for years to come if they didn’t.
Yeah they do and maybe they also did or did not like the backlash and risk for future sales, especially if it does not die down. Remember pre sales of D3? Well if they play their cards right they can get same for D4 or even more if also add those people who did like D3 to the base of D1+2.
Besides that they also have to know about the announcement of Spain that they will regulate lootboxes in games soonish and when that will happen it will have an impact on other EU countries if not possibly outside as well. So that model might well become less interesting if one of the big markets in the world has a problem with it to make most money. So other options will have to be explored as the easy gacha way or it will have to be done more responsible in line with regulations.
Do I suspect team is still looking at trade and how they might profit? If they maybe want to sell xp boosts to players way behind average world progress (still pay to progress, but defensible if it does not make anyone catch up in a day with better gear and for sure makes them not pass other players), battlepass and so on I am quite sure and that they might go to the end of technicalities, maybe. Then again this backlash might have taught them if go to close you do also lose your believability as a person and not only as a company.
If you think people will not play 100 for the game of the year, well those will not pay 60 either for it. Just you will have to convince them that your product is worth it, you know your fair and equitable deal. This is what I offer and that is why it costs 100, do you want it or not? Trust me even with some backlash, most will pay if you can show a great game that people think yeah that is worth that money and to be fair with inflation a price of 70-80 for game would be rather fair anyway. I am not against paying a bit more for good work, just it has been rarer and rarer lately that I would think a game is even worth 60 despite the great graphics.
Life service paid by MTX is, do you want to pay less and leech of others who pay for it even if it means we necessarily have to add content that might not make the game worth even 60 to you, but you have no say in that or how we do those life services after you already bought the product. (Think patch 1.10 in D2LoD for example that added enigma and such).
1 Like
In the end it’s an RPG game and not a fashion game. I don’t say that there shouldn’t be ways to influence the looks of your character at all. Maybe there can be cube recipes or a crafting system where you can change the base of an item etc. but at some point there must be some comitment and a cost. Maybe this could be a way to give white items a purpose? But being able to change everything at will like in D3 without any actual cost makes it meaningless. At least that’s my opinion.
1 Like
Exactly. this is why they do not listen to us as a whole. For every person who is voicing their outrage, there is a sucker who is paying money to get ahead in the game. Hell, I bet their are people who are crying out against it who have dropped money on the game. As long as enough people keep feeding the beast, the beast isn’t going anywhere.
1 Like
Exactly, can we all say Asmongold and others like him with a cult following who give them money.
1 Like
I know some would but tou are delusional if you think D4 would sell well at $100.
I rarely have ever paid money for MTX in any game free or not. So I don’t really care if im percieved as “leeching” or not. Wich is just BS shaming. And the game itaelf will be worth more than $60 just from the notuon of the campaign being 35 hours long. Less than $2 an hour for the very minimum is tremendous value. Add to that the hunds or thousands of hours you mat get from endgame and all the free content the add before the first expansion.
1 Like
It is not bs shaming, it is just a simple fact. Devs want more as 60 for their product and you are happy to let others pay for that, since it saves you money. Very human, but it is leeching of others paying for your drinks in the end. We all like our cake and eat it to. Free does not exist, someone always pays for it.
Just see what people are prepared to pay for other entertainment if they really like it. I suspect publishers have more problems with getting the price they want outright since they have tended to broaden games to open them up to other audiences, also meaning nobody gets anymore what they really want. That is the real lesson that Blizz should have taken away from D3 debacle with fans.
Give fans what they want instead of what you want to feed them and they will pay for it, give them what they do not really want and they stop buying over time even if keep price at 60 with way better graphics but missing the heart/core those players loved. Problem is not that players are not prepared to pay more, but you as companies stopped offering them the products they will pay for. All shiny and for everyone, no heart.
So you believe that as soon as D4 launches it is a one and done game. No updates at all, no expansions. So that you can do everything you want in the game then move on to the next game. Like I said that is not what we are getting. Blizz said it is a live service that will receive updates. They said that when D4 was announced.
What you are implying is that no game that is a live service has ever given regular updates that were any good at all. All of them are garbage and all games have to be one and done instant maintenance mode till the next sequel comes out.
You are also implying that there has never been a one and done game that was bad.
You might be surprised by what they do with D4’s skills, gear, talents, etc…
I disagree because it is nitpicking by saying you only accept it if it was no pay to win will ever be in D4 (in those exact words). Well there are many ways of saying the same thing. The real evidence won’t be in statements that can be used for semantic arguments, but not real evidence. The real evidence will be when players get into the beta test and actually test the cash shop.
I think you are partially right, I think that the extras that wouldn’t be pay to win would be things like name change service, more character slots as they add more classes. Maybe more stash space since there were those in D3 that said they would be willing to pay for more storage space. That is all possible as well as pay to win.
The optional cosmetics are like an optional sub. The only difference is instead of it being a flat amount that is set for all. It is set by the players that want to support the game for.
You know this whole thread along with others like it are proof of what I was trying to tell others about MTX in other threads. That there are those that hate all MTX and don’t want them in any game at all.
I think everyone that is getting bent out of shape because the comment didn’t use exact words that would state no pay to win of any kind in D4’s cash shop will ever be made (or something along those exact words).
I am not 100% certain that D4 will have pay to win. I am concerned deeply about it happening. But can say it is guaranteed to happen. I will take a wait and see approach. Wait till I watch videos of others play it, unless I am chosen for the beta before buying it. Which is a first for me, usually I am one of the ones that have either preordered or ordered it on the very day of launch (D2R).
If that is indeed the case then Diablo Immortal will have to change crests because they surely are loot boxes. Maybe change them where the game gives us x amount of chance to have a legendary gem of 1-5 stars that is also unbound every elder rift. Then crest would increase the odds. Legendary crest would increase it the most per crest. along with adding other rewards like runes like it does now.
I fail to see how trading gear has anything to do with experience boosts.
I have played D3 enough that at times I want the gear that I am wearing to look different. That is why for one whole season I used the Arreat Transmog for the barb because I got tired looking at the waste’s set. I have even changed the color of some gear while leveling because of the mixed colors were an eyesore for me.