Those are flashier and more “magical” looking than the two examples in D4 that are being discussed.
I disagree.
Seismic Slam can look a bit more “flashy” because it consists of several, maybe dozens of shockwaves, but when you just take a single one of these shockwaves, it looks much more grounded than the D4 HotA effect they have shown, even when just considering the colors, which are more grounded compared to the purple nova of D4’s HotA.
Honestly the multiple shockwaves (while cool) are what made it look odd to me, especially if they originate from a single attack, even worse if they only deal damage once, instead of multiple times as it should appear to do.
It actually looks blue to me. I think a reason as to why some may have an issue with it, is that it looks similar to the D3 Wizard’s explosive blast (which ironically was originally a physical attack rather than an arcane attack).
All in all, it comes down to preference, and personally I’m not bothered by the visuals of the Barbarian’s attacks, mostly since lore explained they’re capable of channeling such forces. However, I’m certainly not against them dialing down the effects of said visuals either.
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That D3 animation is mostly just a bright light for a short moment. I’d make it less bright so it doesn’t hide what is happening beneath it, but since it is so short it doesn’t really turn the screen into a light show.
What made D3 flashy is especially the crazy rate/frequency of attacks, and the large radius, resulting in the whole screen being full of effects on top of effects all the time. More than any single effect on its own.
So it is also hard to judge how problematic most of the D4 effects might be without the context they happen in.
And seriously, let us reduce the visibility of other players attacks no matter what.
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Seriously should be an adjustable setting in option that lets us reduce the visibility of other players attacks, effects, and/or pets, up to 90% at least imo.
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Right. Debating the Lore aspect of this Harry Pott- I mean Barbarian, will put me in trouble.
But I’ll settle with those fabulous elemental effects getting dampened down by 80%- in favor of more moments of steel glowing red amidst gory splatter effects and lamentation of their women.
Yeah, you’d be surprise, but according to lore, Barbarians aren’t exactly muscle heads who only think only with their fists. They’re actually incredibly intelligent in their own right (this goes back to even D2).
But yeah, having the option to dial down the effects would be most ideal imo.
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Pets are already pretty transparent and not very noticeable when grouped in D3, don’t think there can’t be a solution to spell effects as well.
But even if there isn’t, D4 doesn’t look like it will have the same issues as D3 in that department
That’s indeed something that was leaking out of his dialogues even in D2. They never made me think of Barbarians as stupid brutes.
However it doesn’t make them potent at wielding elemental magic. There’s definitely an ancestral magic theme but it translates as even more physical damage. Of course there may be some Legendaries/Uniques that confer them some Fire or Lightning effects.
Anyway, the problem about Death Blow is mostly that its visuals are confusing because it’s supposed to inflict Physical damage, making this fiery effect completly inappropriate from a gameplay perspective.
While they weren’t potent with wielding the elements, it was certainly a part of their repetoir; as we learn from the whirlwind skill lore. That’s not to say that Barbarians should go around throwing lightning and fire, of course.
I see it more like “pray to your ancestors/fire spirits for engulfing your weapon in fire”.
Also like WoW shamans weapon enchants for example.
Like, this from WoW:
- Fantasy: Intense communion with fire, earth, air, and water isn’t exclusive to the Elemental Shaman. In many ways, Enhancement Shaman bond similarly with nature and leverage its power on the battlefield. What distinguishes them in their training—and in their connection with the elements—is their combat methodology. These shaman favor empowering their physical attacks with elemental energies and facing their adversaries up close. They don’t shy from the frontlines, wielding magically augmented weapons, potent elemental attacks, and totems that shape the tide of battle.
Diablo Druid is more of the “elemental shaman” archetype. Using their connection with nature/spirits to power spell casting, with their physical component coming from shapeshifting, rather than buffing their own melee power. Barb is more like the enhancement shaman, using their connection to ancestors/spirits to enhance their weapon/physical focused combat. Not throwing any magical spells themselves.
As you said it yourself it’s not the same as Elemental magic, and Whirlwind only does physical damage, suggesting it’s the wind part of the “primal force of the weather” Barbarians mastered.
Though I wouldn’t be against Barbarians inflincting elemental damage, but through physical means rather than magic. If Death Blow’s tooltip says “You wield your weapon through the air so fast that it ignites, dealing X-X Fire damage etc.” I would be more incline to accept the fantasy of it.
Or that, seems acceptable to me.
Tbf, most of the Druid’s tornado skills (both Diablo 2 and Diablo 4, for now anyway) are physical damage based instead of cold based. So just because the Barbarian’s whirlwind deals physical damage doesn’t mean he’s not manipulating the elements. It’s just not on the scale of the Druid.
But if you would only use a single one of them to replace them with the blue/purple shockwave of D4’s HotA, then D4’s HotA would look better and more grounded - in my opinion - because the colors are more earth-y.
I am colorblind. I have a contrast disorder. It is difficult for me to see certain contrasts.
I agree.
Imagine a Fireball explosion that would be green, brown and white. Would look weird…
Yeah, the brightness overall could / should have been tuned down.
Yeah, reducing other players effects should have been a feature from the beginning. It would be like other players minions that become more transparent.
I think there should also be a slider for your own procs (e.g. some of the various Fireball on Attack procs that are in D3). There could be a lot more procs in D3 and it would not be visually problematic if you could tune them down/make them more transparent, mabye even individually decide which ones should be reduced.
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Yeah more grounded colors would be great at least. Seismic Slam looks absolutely fantastic, but shouldn’t belong to the Barbarian. It really looks like something Thor would cause with his hammer- or some Druids trick in combining storm and earth.
Oh man, D3s Leap Attack looks far too magical. Leap can be nice in itself, but the shock wave is too absurd. Enemies should have a reaction duration instead, so when you leap right up to them they don’t attack right away. Reaction time= crowd control.
I’m actually thinking that all shockwave effects should be removed from the barbarian. Another way for crowd control could be to pick up corpses and swing them into the fray- or use shouts that startle nearby foes. An alternate whirlwind cast could be featured, which costs less resources but is aimed at legs/knees of enemies, causing them to move slower. I allso wish D4 would feature a ragdoll so realistic that corpses actually pile up, causing natural barriers that enemy pathfinding is forced to adjusts to. The Barbarian should be able to take on armies of enemies by cheer physical strength and armor, rather than being the lovechild of Sailormoon and God of Thunder
Thanks for the timestamps though, they helped.
I see, I was just saying that it looked blue to me. It wasn’t meant as an insult. That said, it makes the images you make all the more impressive.
Depends. White could’ve been a sign of the extreme temperature of the fireball’s explosion. As for green or brown, then yeah, that would look odd, at least if we’re talking about a normal fireball.
That said, I don’t see the Barbarian visual effect as odd, mostly because I simply see it as their manipulation of primal energies which, unlike a fireball explosion, has no set colors. Once again though, I do think players should have the option to tone down, and/or even remove, such effects if they so desire to. With any luck we may actually get such an option. After all, they implemented an option to let players disable monster’s highlight effect when hit, thanks it player feedback.
The circular effects you see on the surface of the ground are just “a symptom”. The real effect is that a deeper layer in the ground gets shaken and the circular effects, the ripples / quakes on the surface of the ground are just the secondary effect of that.
It makes kinda sense, since the barbarian is smashing his brute force into the ground, which translates into seismic energy that cracks open the ground on the surface as the energy and seismic shakeups travel forward deeper in the ground.
You mean like a Hit Recovery animation or a micro-stun? That would kinda make sense and it also would make the skill / the initial slam feel more impactful.
I think a mirco stun/hit recovery for minor and medium large enemies would make sense. Heavy enemies like Punishers, Colossal Golgors or Malet Lords should probably be un-effected b that.
I actually like the impact animation of D3’s Leap, but I agree that enemies could get a micro stun from the impact.
No way, they make absolute sense since the Barbarians theme has always been “Brute Force”, and sending that force into the ground translates into seismic disruptions, so that makes perfect sense.
The Druid would go different about creating such seismic disruptions than with brute force, but these effects also fit on the Barbarian as long as his brute force is creating these effects and not some sort of instinctual connection to primal energies or nature itself.
You are welcome!
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I did not perceive it as an insult or attack. Just wanted to clarify for why I saw it that way.
And even if it would have been an attack or insult, it would only have been mildly annoying or not even offensive at all.
Thanks, I appreciate that.
Yeah, what I wanted to say was that visual effects should imo look somewhat relatable and arcane-y colors like the glowing/sparkling nova that gets created by D4’s HotA does not fit that skill at all, unless Arcane Damage is on the Weapon the Barbarian uses.
I think there is a difference between manipulating nature / primal energies like the Druid is doing it via some instinctual connection to nature on the one side, and causing e.g. seismic effects to occur by focusing ones brute force into the ground which then translates into seismic energy that causes seismic disturbance in the ground.
Yeah, I agree with that.
Don’t really care for the lore myself, but I agree overall that it’d be nice with a contrast in how flashy the effects are between different classes. I think it’s hard to judge from a single animation in an empty room though: the overall impression of a fight is what counts.
If that death blow animation above is happening once every 10 seconds as final blow of a combo in a gory melee between a barb and a pack of goatmen with limbs flying right and left… I don’t think anyone (?) would have a problem with that, or even really notice.
On the other hand, if this is the base attack happening three times per second with stacked cooldown reduction in speed running gear, then the overall visual impact is quite different.
Not really. From my understanding both Barbarians and Druids are able to manipulate primal energies. They just use it differently. Druids mostly used it as part of their method to commune with nature, the elements, the beasts within nature, and even shapeshift. While the Barbarians mostly used it to greatly bolster their alreadly formidable strength. However some Barbarians have been capable of using some Druidic arts, such as the Barbarian elders who casted the barrier around Harrogath in D2 LoD.
Which is why I don’t have much issue with the visual effects of the Barbarian attacks, since I simply see it as the primal energy. For example, right before the (D4 version) Hammer of the Ancient skill hits the ground, you can see that the Barbarian’s weapon is glowing the same blue color that explodes. Once the weapon hits the ground, it no longer glows, but instead we get that explosion effect.
Watching the old D3 game play from 2008 above, reminds me how much speed and efficiency has really killed how the game was in the beginning. Can you imagine running a rift while having that movement and kill rate?
LOL
I’m not sure you could clear it in time.
That is when you had immersion in the game. Now its how fast you can grind to get as high as you can as soon as you can. 
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