Honestly i just want an updated version of D2 with graphics nothing more nothing less the game grind is fine it is what gets me though the HC seasonal. I do not want Personal Loot I do not want Nerfs now I can see builds that were broken fixed sure down the line if that was the case so it balance was always hit in miss hence why some builds just suck… As far as the actual game mechanics go should be left the heck alone… I know you get it… Next thing they will want it to be like those mobile Arpg games that play them self for you . All they need to do is watch it do the thing and then they feel accomplished.
Before anyone says anything I work 60 hour weeks and still find time to grind in d2 when I can …
So I can only talk for myself here, but I’ve never once said the game is doomed for failure, whether p loot is given as an option or not. It’s a great game, though better if pickit doesn’t become rampant again.
I think I’ve only heard 1 poster saying the game is doomed if they don’t add p loot, but dozens have said it’s doomed if they do.
Some have literally used the words doomed, ruined, destroyed. It’s laughable that on this forum, with this level of hyperbole, you hone in on the one post that uses the same hyperbole because it supports your position.
D2R will be fine whether they choose to add a personal loot option or not. I would argue having the choice would make it better, though.
It’s because ffa and ploot in D2 arent comparable, G - to suggest D2 loot would destroy D2 is absurd, while suggesting ploot could destroy D2 is understandable because itd be so different from what D2 has always been. The loot acquisition mechanic is not so insignificant an element as many plooters state. I see it as a fundamental fabric of the D2 clothing line.
The statement now that ploot is more of a challenge for players than D2 loot is laughable, sorry. There is no active work in getting to the item. Forget rushes, etc - normal multiplayer games, which will comprise most of the experience of the playerbase. Plooters will get gear all at about the same rate, some luckier than others with rares, while ffa-ers will always need to be super aware in groups, working for their share of loot - some getting more, others none. Unless they work together. But if they do no work, ffa-ers will get nothing, while plooters will get something even for no loot acquisition work.
I really cant go back and forth on such an insignificant point, but it’s just silly that you guys are now saying outright ploot is a more difficult system for players than D2 loot.
You do know that David Brevik said that changing to personal loot from FFA is not a fundamental difference in the game.
In D2, a player waits in town. After someone else kills everything in a zone, the “towner” teleports to the cleared area. In a personal loot game, this towner gets no drops from monsters. Can they get any item drops from monsters in a FFA game?
I will absolutely get less loot under a ploot system. Selfishly, I won’t care if ploot is implemented because I primarily play meta builds that smash pvm with ease.
I still think adding p loot as an option- even if it must be in a different realm, separate from FFA chars, is a sound decision on Blizzard’s part.
If it’s at character creation, I literally don’t see why people care-just choose not to play those chars. If it’s at game creation- don’t play in those games.
But to me some of you are guilty by association because I’ve been visiting these forums quite a bit and nobody that wants personal-loot (that I’ve seen) stands up to these guys. I understand some of you might be here replying to somebody else, and not explicitly agreeing with their propaganda, but you aren’t disagreeing either, and you’re actually taking their side supporting them in a topic like this. You’re a bit more fair, I’ll give you that.
I honestly don’t recall anybody saying the game is going to be a “failure” if we get personal-loot… maybe I’m selective reading, I could be wrong. But as far as pro personal-loot saying the game is doomed well, there’s this huge thread here, and then…
Then there’s stuff like this… which we posted in.
I’m just calling it how I see it. I have no control over people, but for the sake of healthy conversation I don’t think insults in any form are productive weather directed at the game or at a person. I’ve been trying to stop myself from saying things like “just don’t play then”, or “just go to D3 if you want personal-loot”, but that just seems like the logical reply to somebody saying the game has been “outclassed”. And you know what, maybe they aren’t wrong, but lets be real, it’ll take more than adding personal-loot to turn the game into some AAA title that people are going to be playing for for the next decade. That would be D4 which is a brand new game with a team that will be continuously updating it.
Anyway, that’s not all directed at you I know you aren’t personally putting the game down, just ranting like I always do while I’m bored…
Like come on, why would you and others want personal loot in the first place if it would make getting gear harder for you? Sorry but ploot making gearing up harder is failed argument.
I don’t really understand how personal loot makes the game harder, either… somebody would have to break that down for me.
Playing alone isn’t much of a factor so I guess playing with people the same amount of loot drops but now you’re competing for loot vs guaranteed loot. I mean, yeah, I guess with FFA people could pick up stuff you don’t want, but those items aren’t generally valuable
If anything I like that about FFA loot, all the shared gear… I like the idea of “passing on” stuff I don’t need to those who are in need. That’s so D2. And less waste.
For meta builds, FFA makes it much easier to gear, as most metas are sorc or wear enigma, thus easier to tele to loot. For me, I’ve never missed an HR that I remember in a public run, as I am always a tanky sorc/din/barb. Pickit is another story, in 2004-2007 pickit was RAMPANT even before bots became extremely common. Constant leechers doing little killing taking loot because of their client side programs.
I also like the idea of passing on loot/mid runes, there are downsides to personal loot as well. It’s one of the reasons I’m perfectly fine with them taking a “wait and see” approach to personal loot in D2R.
I believe if pickit makes a big return in D2R, we should all take a real step back and realize something might need to change though, as personal loot is the only proven method to combat pickit, as it is extremely hard for their server to detect.
On your earlier point, I disagreed, publicly, in that thread ( I think ) and others, that FFA loot killed D2…Rampant cheating killed D2. It would have died in 1.09 if occy rings and Wizspike gloves and things like that stayed on ladder, but botting and excessive duping was the nail in the coffin a few years later.
I still play, and have off and on quite regularly, even before the announcement, but D2 public is a shell of its former self, and I know a few people who would LOVE to leave PoE for D2 if there are few cheats.
I played in that time, you are highly exxagerating. Its wasnt anywhere near to rampant.
Public games are usualy played to get xp, loot is almost never read on why people play together anyway.
I remember some people were complaining about pickit bots taking the Baalrun loot. Well then dont expect free loot if bot will do everything and you just letech xp simple fix is to not join bots.
It is a simple concept to grasp. Let me try some simple true/false questions.
True or False
Since total drops are constant between a multiplayer FFA and personal loot games, players in a FFA game will see 100% of the total drops while in a personal loot game, a player on average will see only 12.5% of total drops (with some variability due to binomial distribution) when in an 8 player game.
Since players can pick and choose what items to pickup in an FFA game, a higher percent of good gear (either universally good or good in the eyes of a specific player) is collected.
In personal loot game, a good drop for player A may be assigned to player B who considers that item useless. Therefore, player A never sees that drop, resulting in a more difficult time in gearing up.
If a map is cleared when a player is not in that zone during that time in a multiplayer game, that absent player can not get any loot from monster kills in the cleared area in a personal loot game.
If a map is cleared when a player is not in that zone during that time in a multiplayer game, that absent player can get any loot from monster kills in the cleared area in a FFA loot game.
Player physical proximity is required to get an item drop from a monster kill in a personal loot game.
Player physical proximity is not required to get an item drop from a monster kill in a FFA loot game.
Ninja looting does not exist in personal loot games.
True and I dont like that, I want to see all drops.
Not sure if I understant, you said ploot will not improve number of items dropping so there is no higher percentage of loot collected in ploot or in FFA. But individual player has more chance to get the loot yes. But it depends on player. Weak player will not have big chance to collect a lot of loot in FFA. Not only he will be risking death in close proximity of monsters where loot drops, but people who “carry” the game and will do most of the killing wont like to see weak player taking their loot so they might not give him party next time.
You are completely forgetting socia interactions which are crated by FFA loot. With ploot you dont need to intersact with anyone as your loot is guaranteed. You can just chill al pick up loot after everything is done without problems when others kill everything. You dont have to risk anyting, you just have to wait and loot will be basicly given to you by game mechanic.
I dont think it make loot distribution and game difficult. It make item distribution not effective and dumb as many usefull items will be lost because game has poorly designed loot. Its not about being harder or easier, its about items being distributed to all kind of players. Someone doesnt care about games, someone dowsnt care about socket or blue items, every player is different and even scavengers can clean what was left
I have seen some people talking negatively about people scavening what is left. How is that a bad thing? Look at the nature, how well it works there, everything is taken care of and what is left is eaten by scavengers
I depends how it will be designed. It would be kind of dumb to not flag loot as visible for everyone after person which was loot for left the game.
Same as previous mode, if you are given loot by the game and you leave the game its logical that loot will be visible to rest of the game for taking.
Of course there is, if you are not in proximity, you will mostl likely not be able to take the loot. Unless is left out as not wroth taking loot by several other players.
It doesn, game ploot will be ninja looting instead of players.
First you have to prove that there is significant amount of pickit users in D2R to use this as argument. If blizzard will make new creative ways how to eliminate pickit without using ploot pickit users wont even affect FFA loot games as there will not be pickit users.
And based on what I read today there is big chance we maybe wont even have such a big trouble with bots with little bit of luck.
Its not , but what ever. This discusion is going nowhere. Ploot has too many flaws in my eyes to work well, and its not even needed by majority of players base. Time to move on.
Really? We are already giving out ultimatums? Relax… If they don’t do it by release, don’t buy it. It’s not like pre-ordering gets you anywhere. Besides, we all know you’ll buy it on sale.
It’s cause, if we add personal loot and keep current drop rates, people demanding said loot(public baal runners, I guess?) would literally see 8x less loot drops => they start whining here about not seeing any loot => drop rates increase => people start to complain(rightfully so) about devastating effect on economy it has => they restrict trading by making items soulbound => we have another d3\wow\d4\whatever garbage.
I’m right there with you that drop rates shouldn’t be changed at all.
Truth is, some of the most vocal for drop changes in this forum have been from players that do not support personal loot.
I would probably play 95 percent of my games with FFA loot enabled even if they made it an option, but I do think it’s healthy for the game if pickit becomes rampant again, to be able to switch to p loot if you suspect a noob with pickit is in your runs, as there’s no kick player option in d2
Then there’s another side to it too, so we add ploot and keep the current drop rates, that means that playing in party killing baal you see 1\8 of loot, which means farming him solo nets you 8 times the loot. So we are adding ploot to encourage group play, by discouraging group play? Not much of a win from the perspective of pro-ploot arguments here, but major downgrade for ffa crowd.
This is already true on average.
Public baalruns aren’t great for loot as it is, but pickit and botting makes them viable for loot runs, because cheaters take much more than their fair share.
There are downsides to p loot, however, and the biggest of those is having a secondary (and tertiary, etc) account, without cheats, becomes a large step up vs FFA loot, where having a secondary account and no server side programs is of no value.
There is no easy and no “best” choice, but there is a reason why modern games are leaning towards personal loot and away from FFA. The benefits of personal loot often outweigh the downsides.
We will see what happens with server side programs in d2r, but I think the idea that advocates of p loot are all noobs that want free loot is silly. There are many rational reasons to be in favour of one or the other, or to implement both options.
simple fix is to not join bots.