D4: what kind of player you are and how would you like your drop ratio?

General Discussion
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I’ve been reading through many threads and I’ve noticed that there are many different opinions about items drop ratios, ranging full spectrum from very-low-very-hard-to-get to higher-drop-ratio-quick-to-gear-up.

Since drop rates greatly affect our approach to the game and how quickly we get to end-game I’d like to know how other players would like it to be, why and which kind of players they are.

Also I’d like your opinion about having an option allowing players to select their own drop ratio amongst a bunch of possibilities.

Just to sketch an idea, something like this:
Drop ratio: lowest – low – normal – high – higher

That would be a choice to be made when we create a character and cannot be modified later, possibly for solo play only (I don’t know how difficult it would be to manage and balance multiplay, both coop and competitive if this was in place)

Items “bound-on-setting” so trading possible only amongst same setting, obviously.

What kind of player I am:
I’m a non competitive solo player.
I don’t trade.
I play all classes, one day I’m a WD the next I’m a barbarian (hopefully in D4 many different characters of each class, each with a different build)
I like long term goals.
I don’t aim for efficiency, instead I enjoy exploring, lore, crafting, appreciating artwork in ambience, monsters, music and so on.
I’m, quite obviously, a slow paced player.

How you’d like your drop ratio:
If there was such an option I would choose the “lowest drop ratio”, it would be the best suited to my gamestyle.

Why:
One thing in D3 I don’t much like is that items are too easy to get, there is no real “Sacred Graal” to hunt for.
I’d like to have some thrill-of-the-hunt back in the game, I really miss it in D3.
Also, even if I’m no trader myself, I guess those who like trading would be happy even if that very rare to find item that just dropped would not fit the class/build they are playing.

NOTE: there in no better kind of player nor a way the game is meant to be played apart from having fun out of it.
Each player has his/her own idea of fun, which any of us should respect.
Please consider it when posting.

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Well the problem with this one is that it’s not 1996 anymore. The gaming scene is overbloated with games and noone has the patience to grind for months or years to find a particular piece of gear. That kind of cretaceous game design does NOT fly in the 21st century.

If someone gets frustrated with the lack of in-game progress due to crappy drop rates + drop quality, they move onto another game.

Alleged D2 lovers can protest that all they want, but if it wasn’t true…then there wouldn’t have been so many item sellers. Now they are no longer necessary because D3’s legendary drop rates are at an all-time high. Grossly overbloated RNG obviously counters that.

Which means I’m torn.

RNG would have to be greatly downscaled in D4 if we’re gonna go down the low-droprate road. Otherwise it’s gonna be first-2-years-of-D3 all over again, but this time without an auction house to chip away at the proverbial progress wall.

Or keep the current level of RNG AND D3’s current drop rates.

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There are still those kind of people. They were not the majority in 2001 though, and they are still not. We’re talking about the top 1-10% of players, who might still be invested to this day(base game, mods, or otherwise). Most people played the game on 1 difficulty(or beat hell a couple of times), ignored the loot hunt, and moved on with their lives. I feel obligated to clarify yet again that Diablo forums, Reddit, and other social media are not representative of the majority…but the extremists do exist(nor should their opinion be completely ignored).

In the pursuit of making the “best” possible ARPG is offering core mechanics that keep an individual player interested if they play the game 10-20 hours, 100 hours, a few hundred, or non stop until next season. If the devs cannot come up with an optimal idea fulfilling that requirement, then the needs of the many will ultimately outweigh the few.

Did I miss something? It feels like a lot of people on these forums speak as in they know already an AH won’t exist…but from what I remember about Blizzcon they stated(paraphrasing here) “We’re looking into having items that are completely free trade, tradable items with restrictions, and items that cannot be traded at all”.

To me that means “Mythic items = bind on account, Legendary/Set items trade once then bind on account(maybe even character), Rare items = free trade RNG fiestas”.

I’m not debating about the “righteousness” on trading(in this thread anyways). Mostly, just looking for clarification.

To get back on topic. I guess “normal” though I don’t know what normal means contextually speaking. I want drop rates to be one of the “later patches” of Vanilla D3, where you were waiting for the legendary safeguard to kick in and auto give you a legendary.

Something in between late Vanilla D3(the crafting patch) or the first two weeks of RoS(pre drop rate power creep). This is working under the assumption that A) we’re forced to trade and B) Legendaries are automatically equippable unlike Vanilla D3(which given legendary affixes and proper balancing they should be for the most part).

@WittyGem’s rant is not far off base though. Build defining gear(aka legendary affixes) are a requirement to these days standards if you want to build a non-niche game(cough: PoE). Don’t blame D3 for that one, blame the internet and WoW.

In the interest of build diversity, unfortunately the drawback of making Legendary Affixes readily accessible, it means you need to make the normal affixes not so readily accessible(with the iLvL also being a consideration as you move up the ladder). Otherwise, someone putting in a considerable number of hours will burn out quickly.

TLDR; The more you gatekeep legendary gear, the less RNG/set in stone normal affixes they should be. The less you gatekeep legendary gear, the opposite.

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Yep.

What on earth makes you think top-end worth-buying items will be tradeable?

White + blue items are still openly tradeable in D3, that’s how you can share transmogs with any player anytime.

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I stated below that sentence Mythic items that I imagined will not be tradeable. I’m not sure why you think rares will be more powerful than that item.

I’m looking for proof, not either of ours interpretations. If you can link me to a source I’ll gladly watch it.

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i have played since the start of D3. I have got 2 primals in that time both useless to my builds. I have done thousands of reforges and spent thousands if not millions of blood shards and never got a primal. I play the game for maybe an hour at a time max (sometimes going over xD). However i have completed the game and ran rifts up to T16 so i’m not complaining. Extra content is extra content after all. Blizzard please please please keep these rare items rare in D4.

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I know it’s not 1996 anymore, I’m quite older now! :rofl:
But even today there are players, maybe not the majority but still quite a few, who don’t like being showered with items.
That’s why I was wandering about having an option.
Me playing on lowest drop ratio would not affect you playing with a different ratio.
I’d have my share of fun and you’d have yours, no?

Since you didn’t specify which kind of player you are I’m assuming you like/prefer the quick paced-higher drop ratio, feel free to correct me if my assumption is wrong.

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I consider myself a hobbyist when it comes to games. Games are my main hobby and may main source of entertainment. Some genres I excell at and take in every nuance, some genres I just want fun gameplay loop without having gnto worry about micro managing and delving into systemic minutiae.

For ARPGs, I love experimenting with builds, and try all classes. Mostly gravitate towards melee. Prefer being able to gear up after sometime playing. I don’t need D3 drop rates and wouldn’t mind a longer journey, but spending months or years to get an item is ridiculous, even more so in today’s environment. Ideally I wouldn’t mind a 2-4 week leveling process of playing a couple hours a night, a few nights a week. Then maybe 4 weeks of playing the same amount to be in a really good shape build/gear-wise.

I’d prefer trade not be an option. I’d orefer offline to be a mode. I’d prefer respecs to expirement with builds in case I don’t like how something is working out. But ultimately, I just want a fun game to play.

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Perhaps “average” instead of “normal” would have been a better choice.
Take it as the level of drop ratio it would let the players complete the game in the time frame Blizzard choose as their goal.

About trading: me too can’t remember Blizzard saying it won’t be in the game.
It’s one of many feature/mechanics we know nothing about (crafting comes to mind, too)

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I don’t think they are changing from what was said so far. Tweaks may be made in areas i guess but they aren’t completely changing code now, and i agree with their decision. Trade will be a limited option, It will be online after solo play and they haven’t said much about skills/itemisation other than mentioning skill trees and there being itemisation and runes/words. And no matter what they come up with not everyone is going to be 100% happy… as always lol.

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It is hard to answer because it depends so much on the itemization. Is each legendary fixed or is it random etc. Are affixes well balanced, or do people only want to use 20% of the affix pool?

Anyway, I’d say droprates “slightly” above D2. Like maybe 25-100% higher droprate in general (depending on item/tier/etc.). With much higher droprates for the rarest items (high-end runes in particular). So items should be relatively rare, but less so than D2. And much much rarer than in D3. (in case anyone think 100% increase is a lot, remember, it means if it took 2 months to find an item in D2 solo, it would still take 1 month here)
The above should be in a “no-trading allowed” mode.
And under an assumption of legendaries having much much less rng than in D3 (fixed affixes). As well as rares also having somewhat less rng (very small affix ranges, with most of the rng being which affixes you get)

If there also is a trade mode, then droprates in that mode might need to be around D2 droprates, sometimes even lower in D2 (like, probably quite a bit lower droprates for the more common items, but unchanged for high-end runes etc. Maybe even increased droprates for high-end runes to compensate for less duping)

I really dont think we should have an option to choose our own droprate ratio (outside of indirectly, through a trade mode and non-trade mode). For one, it would add way too many modes. While I am not afraid of splitting the playerbase, splitting it into 5 (on top of SC/HC/Season etc.) would be a bit much. And it would just feel weird to play such a game, where droprates were not balanced with a singular goal in mind (which they would still be in trade and non-trade mode, where droprates in the two should aim for a similar gearing experience in both modes). Imagine Blizzard trying to listen to feedback from those 5 droprate modes combined.
Two modes, trade and non-trade, should be enough.

D4 will have a consumable that turns rares into legendaries, so if they want to make sure the best items cant be traded, then rares, legendaries and mythics should not be tradeable.
Blizzard has not defined what they mean however.

Oh they probaly will. Likely nearly everything they have shown so far will change in small or large ways. That was the case in D3, and probably in all other games Blizzard ever made. Plenty of things in D3 was changed drastically even shortly before launch.

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Well if they change everything then we are going to be waiting a very very long time lol. I believe they have been working on D4 since 2013 and already changed it completely at least once. And no offense if they leave it for too long they will have to change the engine they run it on again i believe… Have they mentioned if it will be 4k yet?

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Yeah, it’s kind of why I feel like Legendaries were going to be the middleground item in D4. Trade once, it binds to you. Now if you can’t get the legendary affix you want…you can buy it relatively affordably from another player(though usually with a cruddy iLvl). Turn a well rolled Rare into a Legendary? It binds to you.

Mythics on the other hand were going to be(completely guessing here) a 1 in 20 key dungeons drops(probably more). All players were going to see at least one, but odds are they were going to ramp the attack/defense so high it was always going to be viable, and long term players were going to chase after that perfect one. Always bind on account.

Also, kind of offtopic and I confirmed from that Quinn video that there were DEFINITELY no AH. I don’t like trading, but man that sounds awful. No wonder people are asking for self found mode lol.

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D2 provided a pretty well balanced item rarity-to-power curve ratio. The powerful items incentivized you to want to grind more because clearly they were more powerful or enabled a new build that you couldn’t wait to try. Giving people those goals and incentives to reach is an important factor among others that gives an ARPG its LONGEVITY. To suggest otherwise that items should rain from the sky like Diablo 3 is foolish and naive and your opinion puts the games longevity at risk.

What some posters seem to lack in understanding in is that a properly tuned item-to-power rarity curve does not imply that average players will not get good items that define a build. In fact the curve would mean the bulk of drops will be high enough and fun enough to satisfy every player. But it doesn’t mean EVERY item should have the exact same drop rate like it is in D3. So, there should be about very rare and even ultra rare items to give people something to chase after.

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Sure, but if rares are tradeable, you can buy the well rolled rare, and then turn it into a legendary yourself.

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They won’t be changing much to the core architecture on the engine but they will definitely be adding a lot of features.

The gameplay footage we were shown at Blizzcon is alpha footage from comparatively much earlier in the development cycle than Blizzard traditionally releases the info.

Fairly certain the game will have 4K support, likely at a reduced frame rate on consoles but if they go through the trouble of making such good quality PBR assets, I don’t see why they would not support 4K.

They can also do incremental upgrades to the engine during the development process without negatively affecting the pipelines in other development area’s. So pretty much everything is still flexible for them to build extra stuff on

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That’s exactly what i meant. That guy saying they are changing everything now… i was like errrr no!. And i am glad it will support 4k gasp imagine 4k Diablo oooo. It would be good to get a release date. Do you think they will give one this year (and i don’t mean a this year release)?

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I enjoy being showered with loot and gearing up my character. The problem I have is that there is nothing to do after you’ve finished your build. Unless you enjoy pushing bigger numbers for the sake of it, there’s really nothing left.

The key is developing a fun end game.

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It never used to be like that If you are on about D3 yes you are showered with loot now.

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D3 has really polluted peoples idea of an ARPG. What a stain that game has created in peoples conceptions.

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