I don’t need to trade.
I just wanna, because it’s fun.
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Perhaps big mad that this discussion happens so frequently that it is seemingly reoccurring to the point of disgust when there really is no credible merit to being against trading.
The best argument that I’ve seen, and I’ll re-cap since I’ve participated in those previously had discussions and my position has not changed (I can take it or leave it when it comes to trading, but feel as though it is an essential part of any RPG that is multiplayer enabled). Anyhow, the most valid argument I’ve seen against trading is that drop rates vary by basis of whether trading is permitted or not. Which assumes 1) that those drop rates are known to the general public and 2) that they would be different (the drop rates) depending on whether or not the option to acquire equipment through alternative means to that of self-found acquisition.
The real culprit here is that people are willing any expense as means of advantageousness.
Which is a problem with human nature. Not a problem to a fundamental concept to that of humanity.
I get it though. They’d rather just be left alone in their own world that they’ve convinced themselves that they own. Are upset any time reminded with a reality check that such is not the case and then start spouting geyser level horse manure.
Fertilizer for the crop harvest.
Still waiting on how restricted trading/no trading will rule out the imaginary problem associated with using actual currency to gain an advantage is appropriate to restructuring how a game is played while missing a fundamental aspect.
I can’t even throw my items away through charitable means because of a possible tax write-off associated with it according to these types. I literally have to toss gold into the garbage rather than gift that gold to another persons treasure chest. One mans trash is another mans treasure? Nope.
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From what I read, the developers want to introduce legendary consumable on the rare items. If that really happened, you can expect those rare items will be the main currency for the D4 trading.
Found a perfect roll rare items? Sell it for real money, people will buy it so they can enhance the uber-rare item into an uber-rare item with legendary power. Rinse and repeat.
Just how come this expectancy exists?
What if all mythic (1 per character) and legendary-associated quality of items (consumable or otherwise) are in the non-trading category, with rare, magic and unique in the limited quantity of trading category, and common item as the trade indefinitely category?
Just why do people bother forming an opinion in such ways?
They really be imagining things in their head, then believing it to be true.
May I suggest to the false prophets to stop projecting hunches as prophecies?
shrug
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If by “garage sale” you mean “bazaar” then sure, this is Sanctuary, not suburban America, and rife as this world is with powerful game-changing artifacts, our heroes have every reason to keep their eyes peeled as they pass through the local market square.
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Trading is overrated and, frankly, uninspiring. I prefer to play the game and find my own items. Thank Hell for Josh Mosqueira 
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Trading or no trading isn’t even the real issue. There is a very large playerbase waiting to play D4 either way they do it. The actual problem is when they do their ‘meet halfway in the middle’ stuff, where it’s not good for the people that want trading and also not good for people that don’t want trading.
Like half my friends list quit when they removed the RMAH in D3. Not many of those came back. Yet I still had a lot of friends to play with for like 3 more years anyways. If they kept the RMAH, it was only a matter of time before a different set of people on my friend list would leave. Either way some people like it and others don’t.
Blizzard needs to make an actual choices and stick with them. They shouldn’t be nerfing the game a week into it like with D3. They should have had difficulty tuned before hand. All Blizzard needs to do is make a choice and stick with it. Test it some way before launch. Not the change it 2 weeks after launch stuff.
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Trading together with labyrinth are the 2 most hated things from PoE players.
Trading is like your partner giving you a shopping list of things to buy before you return home as someone is coming for dinner.
You just want to get on with it ASAP.
The # 1 problem with free trading like in PoE is that it took way too much time of playtime, disrupt gameplay & you need a 2nd monitor. Well if you make it like AH, trading will be more pain-free but diminish the fun of looting. We been there before.
I get the argument of not being able to get the item you want due to RNG. Firstly I think any loot game must be design that there is pathway to getting most key items, outside of pure RNG, & I think D3 did a decent jobs with gambling & rare upgrade but obviously can still be improved. 2ndly, I thik we can have trade, but make it limited, say trading required rare token, currency (non tradable), that get absolved to system when trading is done. This ensure people only trade for the hard to find items they wanted, so as not to waste the token, & trading place will not be filled with all garbage.
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This will likely be a very unpopular opinion. I’ve always thought that the best approach to itemization in looter games was this:
- All legendary/unique items must be found as drops and cannot be traded except among those players that were there when it dropped. (Something similar to D3’s trading model)
- Rare items (which should be possible to have better overall stats than legendary/unique items) can be freely traded in a marketplace and can drop from monsters and be crafted by players using mats that drop from monsters. (Something closer to PoE’s model but modernized with automated systems so trading isn’t a chore)
- The materials to craft specific types/affixes for Rares and build-defining legendary/uniques should have methods in game to focus your farming methods. (This is something that I haven’t really seen done well in any game, though a bad example of what I am talking about is Divination cards in PoE)
- All materials, gems, etc… can be freely traded in the same manner as Rares.
In my mind, this would encourage and reward killing monsters for loot and encourage and reward a player driven economy at the same time. My biggest issue with restricted trading on everything is that anything that isn’t useful to you is junk. My biggest issue with unrestricted trading on everything is that you are forced to trade in order to play anything because drop rates simply make it statistically unlikely for you to get all of the things you need for your build to function yourself. What I would like best is a happy medium between the two extremes.
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It should be a thing in that system. It’d be either distinctive or subtle but trash items should exist because game flow revolve around crafting materials. If it was subtle then decision making would be at players’ hand, and apparently developers don’t trust them to make proper weighting decisions so they make trash items obvious by creating a slot machine.
What gives? Nothing.
Trade was never a mandatory thing, a well thought crafting system could substitute the lack of trading. What’s that? We don’t have it either? Guess you have to smelt trash some more and dump everything in the magical cube.
Y-yyyyeeah… Sure. I ain’t gonna buy that. A good crafting system can pose as a makeshift equipment until you get a proper drop. If you want more social bonds it won’t go deeper than clanmates. Sorry can’t help you there.
Apparently changed tax laws in 2013 gave put them in a conundrum about recording everything, so they used fan pressure as an excuse to opt out already bugged RMAH with GAH platform completely.
Not necessary even when you wanna reintroduce trading back into the game.
Also what would ever change if you reduce the drop rates? Gamble from Kadala and Cube upgrades still be available to players, this only would end up funneling player back to Greater Rifts even harder.
Long shot. Requires another item class to be made that doesn’t scale with character level, extra restrictions and penalties for trading required. Perhaps most if not all tradeable gear be based on PvP purposes only.
But it’s a playstation game alre-- oh… I get it. They don’t care about what you think.
They just want to reflect Monthly Active User to their quarterly finance calls. After eight long years, game has still a huge underground market going for it with tax laws intact. They ain’t gonna risk it. If you want trading, guess you have to keep your apetite for D4, so you’d have a reason to buy their new game.
I wouldn’t expect trading to return to this game (besides at D3 classic but it’s free-to-play in China) so you can sell your stocked Primal items, if this EVER applies everyone gonna start from scratch so you can’t profit off from multiboxing and bots at day one.
I play SSF so trading doesn’t bother me and as far as labrinth I just cleared Uber Lab for the first time with a build that is my own build.
Trash loot has to exist in a game. Because if it didn’t then you would have infinitely scaling loot. Where every drop has guaranteed upgrades. With a gear curve continually rising to infinity. That is impossible to pull off and if it were doable I don’t think you would want it to happen.
True. But my point still stands. I have pointed out in the past that there are those that love to legitimately trade, those that want to make money, and those that want to buy their way up in the past so I know it’s not all about the money.
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I’m not talking about trash loot ShadowAegis. obviously there has to be trash loot in general. im saying no trash LEGENDARIES specifically. if a legendary drops, the feeling you get should always be excitement. why? because its supposed to be rare and powerful. If finding a crappy legendary is even a possibility it ruins the entire farming excitement as a whole. So legendary items should drop way less, but when they do they should ALWAYS be powerful.
At the very least the possibility for a crappy legendary should be low, they should MOSTLY be good. As it is right now in D3, zero excitement for any legendary drops. You can pick up 8-12 legendary drops in 20 min runs within an hour of starting a season. Most of them being crap. lol
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Not necessary. Diablo 2 unique drop rate is terrible and even it dropped, it is usually trash.
Also, there is no way to make every legendary to be powerful. I mean, if you got the best legendary helmet in the game as your first legendary helmet, the next legendary helmet that is not the best is not going to excite you no matter how many times the legendary helmets dropped.
The lab has been tone down over the years due to complaints. Used to be you need to do the full run even in normal. I haven’t played for a while, but I heard they want to (or already) make ascendency point possible without doing lab))
How frustrating lab largely depends on your build. If you have high speed, movement skill & some range attack regen build, Its cakewalk. You have a vaal pact melee build, its going to be far rougher. The advice for vaal build is remove the node, & reapply it after uber lab. But its just awful design.
If you are interest in PoE in the long run, I use PoELab website (I can’t paste link)
& only do uberlab when the layout is good.
yes it is necessary and no im not saying D2’s system was good either. D3’s system is just super broken is my point and D4 will also lose any type of longevity if they don’t fix the useless legendary problem as well as the drop rate. D2 had trading making it much more “okay” to get useless legendary items. If D4 has no trading, then the useless legendary problem because a giant issue .
Look I am going from the stand point that a character already has all of the legendaries that they need to have. As long as those legendaries are not at the bottom end of the affix ranges then there will be ones that will drop that will be just like the ones that they have that are trash. Maybe even those that would be similar that could be trash as well.
I have heard about that as well. Although from what I remember they were talking about it for PoE 2.
I have a Tri-Curse Frostbolt Occultist with 18% move speed, add Lightning Warp for travel. Then add around 4.8% life regen from the tree.
Since I looked at that website before attempting it. I seen it was Lieutenants and Portals I knew I could make it. Since I knew that I didn’t make a build that could farm it or designed for Uber Lab that all I would need to do is go for the final 2 Ascendancy Points. This means that I could make sure that Izaro didn’t take anything with him in his two phases, which is what I done.
Like I said earlier D4 has limited trading. Where some items have unlimited trading. Others are traded only once or you could say bind on trade (BoT). The rest are not tradeable at all, here think BoA. This is saying that the most powerful gear is BoA. Where as everything else is either traded only once or unlimited trading.
D4 is doing it that way to prevent the third party sites from making money off of D4.
Trading with an NPC the same way you trade with players would not be conducive. That would be just as bad as player trading.
I want the game to be the best it can be for everyone. I bet it will be a better game if you can’t trade. Requiring you to kill monsters to get your items. Making a more linear progression curve more likely. Preserving the early/middle part of the game (which is instantly destroyed if you can trade).
Do I have to care whether other people ruin their own game experience? No. I don’t. Maybe I am just very altruistic.
Or maybe their game experience actually do matter for my game experience. If Blizzard creates a bad game, it is less likely they will keep supporting it with quality content, bug fixes etc. Which does affect me.
For the same reason I dont think Blizzard should have a feature where all items in the game is mailed to the player when they create a character. Because it would make the game worse.
The fact that I can ignore said feature is not particularly relevant.
Honestly, telling people to ignore bad aspects of a game is not a good solution regardless. If you have to close your eyes while playing, making up your own imaginary rules etc. maybe the game is simply bad then. It reminds me of whenever people say that instead of having HC mode, people can just delete their character when they die. Or if you think D3 droprates are too high, you can just decide to only pick up every 10th item drop. Sorry, it is not the same. You cant imagine a bad game into a good game.
Heck, even if they made a decent game, that was focused on trading, chances are that the content they end up making, is not as good as it could have been, since the new content will likely be focused around the fact that the game is a trading tycoon. As we also see in PoE. Once again affecting me.
Which is why neither rares or legendarys should be tradeable in D4. Any items that are usable in end-game should not be tradeable. Also includes currencies, crafting materials etc.
I guess blue items could be tradeable, assuming they dont have a role past the first few lvls.
Indeed. Compromising in the middle just makes it bad for everyone. As is the case with the current proposal of some items being BoA, and others BoP.
The only real compromise here, that wouldn’t make it worse for everyone, is having two game modes: One where you can trade, with lower droprates, and another where you cant trade, with higher droprates, each balanced around the same progression speed.
I still think this is worse than simply not allowing any trading at all (as above, allowing people to destroy their own game experience is not a great idea), but at least better than trying to have some weird middleground solution.
I agree a legendary item should always be good for someone, as in some build in the game. But they would of course still very often be useless for your specific build. Which is fine. That is a basic part of A-RPGs imo; finding new items that makes you want to create a new character/build that can use the new cool item you found (which imo is also greatly hurt by trading, as it becomes too easy to target the “correct” gear then).
Part of the problem in D3 is the character builds + affixes being useless, not the legendaries themselves.
Legendary A with Crit Chance and Crit dmg is considered good. Same legendary with attack speed and bleed chance (or whatever) is considered bad. But the solution here should not be to not have the latter legendary in the game. It should be to create a game balance where builds exist, that can use such an item.
My biggest concern is being able to target very specific items that I want for a build. I know the idea has floated around of things like a consumable that increases glove drop rate or whatever but that just weights the RNG rather than solving the problem of bad RNG.
I’m reminded of WoW back when I went over a full year and 2 raid tiers without seeing a single shield drop for my Prot Paladin, and that was me wanting ANY shield because they didn’t have crazy unique effects and any given item tended to have a 10-15% drop rate off raid bosses that were guaranteed to drop several items every week.
If I look back at Diablo 2 and think about if I couldn’t trade for my Assassin’s Chaos claw to make a whirlwind build with, I honestly think I never would have made that character. It would have been a nightmare wanting a build defining item in a system where I was completely at the mercy of the RNG, even if I was able to weight that RNG a bit and if drop rates were higher.
I feel like not being able to target very specific items is going to result in either less interesting items(that way I wont feel gimped if I don’t have that very specific legendary) or result in me not wanting to play a lot of builds that rely on getting very specific effects from items to be good.
I feel like the context is rather important, because there is a point where a person ought to take responsibility for their own enjoyment and not use a game mechanic if they have more fun not using it.
It’s why I don’t play hardcore mode in Diablo. I don’t enjoy the perma-death.
Having self-found vs trading mode with adjusted drop rates is probably the best solution.
There are far worse D3 decisions that made the game as it was, no trading is really not even a Top 5 tbh… I’d personally advocate to make the game first work without trading, and then include it afterwards
A good game with no trade is a guaranteed winner one way or another, on the other hand allowing trading can (and probably would) mean a false positive i.e. a bad excuse for not making some parts of the game (in this particular example, looting) good