Just another Trading Troll Post
Nothing to see here
No we will not provide a black market economy for the game, no we don’t want spam bots in our channels yammering away all day and night long, no we don’t want your trading to ruin YET ANOTHER GAME
No. No. Lemme repeat this slowly
N
O
Now stop it. Timeout in the corner till you come to your senses.
Trading is something that I really wish they’d bring back, even if they have a self-found only mode that rebalanced drop rates for people who don’t want it.
but the community is so polarized on it I don’t see us changing Blizzard’s mind on the subject. More than likely, we’ll just do another 500 post argument thread where both sides dig their heels in and refuse to move.
There’s no polarization.
There’s the vast majority who are smart enough to understand why trading is bad for games like Diablo.
And then there’s the tiny minority of disgruntled item sellers who are missing their income supplement, so they create new accounts every so often to try and convince us that there’s far more people wanting unrestricted trade back than not.
In a hilarious twist of irony, the latter are the ones who brought about BOA to begin with, by showing Blizzard why BOA is so fundamental to the longevity of a loot-hunting game. And the more threads like this they spam, the more they remind Blizzard why restricted or NO trading is the best way to go.
Now if you don’t mind, I’ll take a bow.
https://i.imgur.com/Eys3fWe.gif
D3 made no mistakes. Only happy accidents.
with covid plaguing the world, a lot of people have to come back to playing trade games to make some cash, don’t be so harsh, maybe OP is not a troll…
Being said, yes, zero trade game can be spared by RMT and please, don’t make D4 another victim. I’d like to play the game than actually playing the trading list. Like, back in D3V or in PoE, I find myself looking at item listing more than actually killing monster.
NO TRADE FOR D4.
I’m going to jump on this for clarification to others largely because it’s an entirely different game in terms of progression, to the point someone can literally never touch the AH and still beat everything without steep grind periods.
What largely incentivizes RMT in games like Diablo is nigh-insurmountable RNG. Sure, our D2 nuts can be like, “Farm x mob, it has the best drop rate of y!” when all that really means is a fractional percentage of difference and never a guarantee you’ll get what your after with hundreds of hours of play. So, of course, dropping $50 for whatever becomes mighty tempting when you know the RL equivalent of time working to pay that would be lesser. End result, players play the game less.
In XIV, everything has a small drop pool. If you want a specific item from a dungeon, you just have to keep running it until it drops. Weapons are probably the most difficult things to get in this case, given the job spread comparative to class groupings, but there’s unlikely to be anything Zod-tier or some other absurdity even if someone has the worst luck. And in the end, tome gear exists as a hard counter to that bad RNG and is typically better, anyway. So chasing such things is often more a matter of chasing glamors. In fact, a good chunk of the economy that does exist is primarily toward this end and housing. Gathering is also largely a stable activity and personally instanced within the open world, where the only aspect I’d chide SE on are timed nodes as a literal forcing of scarcity.
Coincidentally, I’d argue XIV went this way because of XI was also plagued by RMT. Instancing wasn’t as prevalent, time gating existed in numerous forms (including rare mob spawns), and you’d have things with a 1% drop rate or worse. Crafting tended to be garbage outside of a few niche markets, where people flooding into those resulted in a horrid economy where NQ items sold at significant losses while HQ only sold at profit if you were statistically lucky. Amusingly, XIV did take the luck element of HQs out the equation, by shifting crafting into more of a mini-game where outcomes can be mathed out/tested. Nonetheless, XI’s notorious RMT Christmas of 2005 happened precisely because environments of hyper-scarcity led players to cheating dev intention while bots reaped the rewards. Which is also important to note that devs can and do screw up in their designs, particularly when balance and smooth progression is often an afterthought.
Subsequently, this tends to be why I call anyone that wants FFXI Classic 100% as it was back in the day or thinks it would be a resounding success is out of touch with reality, let alone the current video game climate.
There will be trading, just the best items you need to find yourself. This is a loot game. The trading system for D4 is fine as it is. You can trade most items and need to find the BiS items.
The thing is that for as much complaining about “not playing the game”, Diablo 2 was still a loot game. Generally you had to find items worth trading to get the best items, or simply find the best items if you got really lucky.
Not that it’s an insurmountable obstacle, but I think the best part of trading is that it effectively functioned as RNG protection in multiplayer. RNG wont drop that very specific unique you need? Not a problem, just find ANY item worth something and trade for it.
I also wouldn’t call anything Diablo 3 did a very good replacement for trading’s status as RNG protection. It’s mostly just giving you more rolls at the RNG slot machine, which doesn’t exactly feel great when RNG isn’t going your way.
It becomes especially bad if you’ve got build enabling items, because your character more or less doesn’t function properly without a very specific item.
I’m open to the idea of a system that fills this role that replaces trading, but I’ve yet to see any suggestion that I’d consider a good idea and I can’t think of any myself.
Yes, he and many ignore facts and truths and have to bend reality so their view point fits.
Well, the concept. We need to see what is tradeable and what tier of trading they get slotted into first.
Thanks for the replies. At least the ones that were genuine and not angry at chinese botters.
Still have zero interest in selling items for real cash. not sure why people keep pushing that idea on me. You CAN have trading and NOT have bots and black markets. How? exactly like people here have pointed out here. You have restricted trading systems. So the best 10 or whatever items cant be traded and/or can only be traded once. ect. Those are some great ideas instead of limiting trading to just an hour with only the team you’re farming with.
no one wants bots spamming anywhere, thats something thats fixable without destroying trading. And im not talking about spending “tons of time” in trading markets either. You know theres such a thing as a middle-ground right? I’m not saying trading should be a huge part or even a big part of D4, but i really hope it exists in a better form than D3’s. It enhances the farming aspect so much more, which is the main part of the game.
maybe the problem with loot can be fixed WITHOUT trading at all. Maybe its mostly the legendary drop rate and the useless legendary problem that ruined it for me.
The one thing I always see is people focus on the wrong parts of the argument on “why trading is bad”.
I think trading is healthy in arpgs. I will say, however, is that it is only good in arpgs where value of items can be assessed. If D4 makes rares useful (i.e. not crafting salvage like D3) then there would be a place where hunting for perfect rare items makes sense… and then trading would as well.
If the rares are going to be crafting fodder, then well… what’s the point of trading at all.
The only caveat to this is making items that drop in game that are NOT an item, but help craft a good item that are desired. I believe this is one area where any trading ARPG can learn from POE (despite POE’s other issues). Each currency in that game has a purpose and modifies items.
The prime example in POE is an alchemy orb. It is both currency for trading, but also allows you to turn a normal item into a rare. Why is that important? Well it makes item bases valuable as a result since now you can try at crafting (gambling) something nice on a usable base for yourself… or you can save a bunch of those and trade it to someone for the one good rare you need for some sort of price.
If D4 keeps gold as useless as it is in D3, then trading is pointless and will really serve no purpose.
A game has to be designed around trading or not. Shoe-horning trade into a game that isn’t designed for trade just disappoints everyone.
I don’t care what D4 does, just please… PICK ONE. Don’t do some weird hybrid thing that just upsets everyone.
Exactly. Great response. I do like how PoE items plays into trading so that would definitely be one way to go. I would prefer a trade system that included something like D2 runewords. Ya it wasn’t perfect but blizz could add a runeword system thats modified so theres an almost limitless combination of end-game builds with them.
i think that destroyed the other half of the fun for me, lack of viable build combinations. The game always pigeon-holed you into basically using one of 2 sets of skills based on your gear. yawwn.
It’s very ironic that you posted that in reply to somebody who just goes around saying that literally everybody who wants trading is just doing it so they can buy their way to items or sell item for real money.
Indeed though, there is.
Just out of curiosity, have y’all explained how you’re going to stop whales from selling entire character accounts (and all the items equipped) to make two cents?
The anti-trading argument on the basis of hatred for the spending power of currency is still a bit perplexing to me.
Trading belongs in any RPG. You may as well remove the NPC vendors & salvage functionalities if you’re going to prohibit players from engaging in the dynamic with each other.
There is a solution to the problem and removing trading from the game is not it. That’s why they’ve suggested restricted trading. However, I don’t believe that the power of the $ will be thwarted by such.
I could theoretically and hypothetically still hire someone to come to my home and grind for the items that I otherwise would have sought out through similar means, such as that which trading would allow.
The simplest solution is to make playstyle such that items don’t dwarf all else.
It can be a tricky challenge in a loot hunting game. If & when that is all the game amounts to, expect the return of botting as you would if as a born again Christian expect the return of Jesus.
Decrease the value of items to the point that they are either A) so expensive that continually purchasing with real life currency is not feasible or B) depreciate their value in a way that makes spending real life currency on them a complete waste of resources.
That the concept of trading is flawed is a ridiculous argument. You’ve heard the figure of speech “Don’t hate the player, playa, hate the game” I suppose?
Sounds like you’re hating on the player & the game in this regard. A saturation of hatred. It is poignant here.
You can increase the value of items in-game without increasing how much they’re worth without removing a fundamental joy to the discovery and / or acquisition of said items.
I think if NO trading was even possibly a “best way to go” it wouldn’t support the intended restricted trading direction that they’re trying to strike the balance of to this “polarization that doesn’t exist”.
Clearly if no-trading was even a good idea it would have been adopted and integrated.
The loot hunting game without trading may as well be a single player game. Oh wait…
That’s what some want… 
Regardless of which side of this “polarization that doesn’t exist” is greater in number. It is a bad idea to eliminate a fundamental to any RPG - that being itemization - and reduce it to something that is essentially turning the ‘primary objective’ of the game (loot hunting) into something that is basically a single player aspect in a multiplayer game.
The first worst change to D3 from D2 was reducing to half party size.
If you had a choice between no trading/restricted trading as an option but could only opt in by opting out of playing multiplayer would you take it? You’d still have to play online only, as ridiculous as that comes off.
I’ll tell you what. I’d opt out of a single player only option if I could continue only playing multiplayer while being online only. What a novel idea, I know.
My participation in this debate is solely due to the entertainment I get from the idea that trading with players is ruins the game but trading with NPC’s is not.
You realize that the largest whales of them all are the vendors with no end to their wallet, right?
P.S. It’s not the players with the unlimited coin.
In order for you to convince me that
you’ll have to explain to me, conceptually, why the fundamentals of trading with another player are detrimental as opposed to the trading with an NPC being conducive.
I’ll wait 
guys… ive been on these forums for literally 2 days and i already knew not to respond to IronMan. He’s in literally every thread flaming like a 9 year old on call of duty or a basement dweller with no job.
Because they do. Legit players don’t need trade to get geared & git gud 
, not in D3’s current itemization state and most likely not in D4’s either.
It’s called playing the game. You’d think someone with ~2500 posts would understand that by now. Just goes to show that some people only care about bloating their post count with nothing but hot air.
Don’t ask questions the answers to which will make you cry.
It’s called: playing the game. Not your local d4jsp.
Try me. Again I’ll wait.
Part of playing the game involves something that RPGs always have at least to some extent. Even if that is “trading with an NPC” or “restricted trading” via way of BOA/BOE etc.
If I can drop the item on the ground, I can pick it up, I can loot it, but all of a sudden I can’t exchange it for reasons beyond what the immersion in-game can explain. How then can you exclaim that restricting trading altogether is conducive to playing the game as opposed to at least some degree of trading being detrimental?
I understand how you can exclaim it, that’s not really what I’m asking.
What I’m asking is why is it that how others acquire their loot in a loot hunting game upset you to the point that those who enjoy doing so, that have absolutely no interest in salvaging the time they’ve invested in such, deserve to be punished by no longer being able to play the game that way?
It always comes down to the same fallacy. That other people enjoying playing the game in a way that you personally do not is deserving of having enjoyment being eliminated as means to appease your personal problem. Which is exactly what this is. An entitlement issue, and a personal problem.
Yeah, yours. 
I have no problem understanding why trading is bad in games like Diablo, because I rejoiced when the RMAH went down and I can gear myself just fine. And plenty of other people have explained it in great detail in the past.
If some people are incapable of grasping plain spoken english or choose to ignore it, that’s their problem. I’m not going out of my way to spell it out for each one of them.
I got better things to do, like watch paint dry.
Or perhaps changing alter-ego alias again.
snicker