Clearly you are not involved in RMT on any game lol. Keep living in that fairytale mindset though. It just helps the RMT market excel. 
Gold is not even close to the biggest/largest market share of sales for RMT related things.
Gold is far more purchased than accounts from whales, because it is WAY more convenient for them.
Yes, it does matter. That was his whole point, and the reason this thread is stupid.
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Again, you are clearly out of touch or completely not involved in RMT on any game. This is not at all true.
As repeated many times throughout the thread the P2W semantic has nothing to do with problem stated in OP.
Lmfao.
twentycharacters
Meanwhile Diablo 2 was apparently P2W by this ridiculous definition, yet it is the best, most enjoyable, and replayable arpg ever made. It has botting, third party retailers, the works. It didn’t hurt its legacy.
Path of Diablo is an awesome lite mod for D2 and they have completely prevented botting and third party retailing on their servers. I think D4 can do just fine.
Okay, so every game ever made is pay to win because you can pay someone better than you or with more time than you to just accomplish what you wanted anyway.
Case closed, don’t ever play any game that has any sort of multiplayer interaction, because by your definition it’s immediately pay to win.
This is so far removed from reality that it’s not even funny. Every single game that has ever come out and allowed players to interact with one another is pay to win.
WoW’s been pay to win forever since you can just buy gold off a third party website and buy raid sales, even before they added in the token.
D3 is pay to win because you can buy character boosts, gearing services, etc. off third party websites.
You two are looking for single player games that you can play without ever having to interact or otherwise look at any other player ever. And even then, you can just download cheats for it anyway.
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Trade creates value based on supply and demand. Crafting never does that. your explanation is basically. magic is performed and now there is an AI system that somehow can emulate supply and demand of items without there being an actual market to base that off of.
Do you know how MMO’s do it? By forcing it. All gameplay (end-game) in MMOs require you to party up or even join a clan. Once again, you show a lack of understanding of basic game mechanics.
Your are completely wrong in this. All games whether trade exists or not is designed around a set progression rate the company wants the majority of players to keep to. If the game is designed around no trade you get x progression. if the game is designed around trade you still get x progression. It’s not about taking a game like D3 and simply adding trade to it. It’s about designing the game with trade in mind from the start. The only real way to get out of that set progression is to be a “lucky” person (which the company accounts for) or rmt. and since rmt exists for both restricted trade and free trade it shouldn’t be a factor.
Trade doesn’t change your overall chances for getting better gear at all. As a game would be designed around trade in the first place.
overall, you have a very shallow understanding of trade and even show a complete lack of understanding of how trade works in some aspects.
Watch again. No they didn’t. lol
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Okay, I already said everything important and I will reply if anyone puts something constructive further. It’s time to leave space for the trolls to enjoy the thread too.
True to some degree*. The problem is, within that same game, you dont have x progression for both trading and non-trading. Not unless you create two completely separated, individually balanced modes.
If not, then you are either going to balance around non-trading, which makes the market a joke, with extreme over-supply of gear, or vice versa.
*I think game devs tend to underestimate what external infrastructure is going to build up around their games. Even if they dont add an AH themselves, players are going to make external AH websites (not RMT) etc. for trading. Which means the game designers dont really have full control over the “x progression”.
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In other words, as long as someone explicitly agrees with you that allowing any sort of community interaction means the game is 100% designed around being pay to win, you’ll engage.
Anyone that thinks that idea is crazy, is just a troll.
You’re worth the time it took to write this.
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So because you’re wrong and can’t admit it you give up arguing invalid points that are not true and call everyone trolls lol. Class act. Just further proves everyone else’s points are who all against majority of what you keep writing.
When everyone else is disagreeing with you, perhaps you should take a minute to realize that maybe, in fact, you’re actually wrong.
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Trading is coming back to Diablo, deal with it.
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Diablo 2 was a great game, but one of it’s biggest flaws was definitely the fact that the game was filled with botted / duped items that were constantly sold through third party sites. It kinda takes the fun out of it a bit when you realise you could grind something for 50 hours to get a good item, or you could go buy it for $3 on some site instead
I’m not sure how Path of Diablo has managed to “completely prevent botting and 3rd party retailing on their servers”, I haven’t really played that mod, but a quick google search reveals multiple posts about people selling items… so I’m not sure I believe you
And no one is really for that kind of thing. But Diablo 2 isn’t an example of what happens when you have free trade. It is an example of what happens when you don’t do anything to combat rmt. Restricting trade is simply being lazy to address a problem. You can put real resources into combating rmt and have just as much of an affect if not more on rmt that restricting trade has. It’s obvious which the company would want to implement. But it’s also obvious which the community should support as well. (These should be opposing ideas and settle with some compromise. It shouldn’t be the community being like… “yes, please give me all the restrictions possible on my gameplay”)
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I believe it was underestimated during d2 age for sure. But not any longer. In fact unless you have support from the game itself it is kind of hard to implement an efficient trading system for the game. For instance path of exile only has it’s third party ah like system due to the company supporting such a thing.
Otherwise you end up with things like d2jsp (we will say not rmt so the trades are still for in game items to in game items). This requires both parties to use the same website and both parties to setup an in-game meeting. Well that’s just the same thing as using the forums for trade at this point.
D2jsp made Diablo 2 trading very easy because the alternative was searching game names. Everyone was in different games. Everyone only put up a few of there items for trade and mostly only accepted item for item. They didn’t accept hrs or sojs for the most part. But these days, all trading will be at least on par with d2jsp due to trade forums.
This Skelos guy lives in his delusional world, expecting everything to be as ideal as he likes. Heck, even 100 years later, game will never be separated from real life mentality and decision.
I agree with the person who said trading or not, people will have similar item progression. This Skelos guy assumes that botters will be the first one to get item X or Y, then sell it to player A. Pro players will always be more efficient than botters in the early stage of game, provided if there are any botting program available at day 1 of game. I don’t care if rich players pay real money to get X item at day 5 if pro players or some other lucky ones can get it at day 3 or 4 playing decently.
Furthermore, if a gamble cost millions while selling an items only earn a few hundred or even thousand gold, what is the speed for a player to get enough gold for a gamble? Trading items takes time, running back and forth the vendors in game takes time. Yeah according to this Skelos guy it’s a big problem that one player can take half to even one hour to gain enough gold to gamble, while others are enjoying the game and already have good drops. And what is the chance to get a legendary or better per gamble? 1%? 0.5%? You honestly mean if it takes real money and a whole day just to get 1 legendary, it’s a problem? Others can easily get tons of good items with good luck.
Then, we don’t even know how gambling work yet. Does it spawn an item equal to your level or a level 40 item? Even if it’s like D3, you only truly start mass gambling after reaching 70. And how long it takes to reach 40? We don’t know yet.
And don’t forget one thing, this is an online game. Every data can be tracked by Blizz. If a certain player acquires a certain amount of gold within a short time, all accounts involved in the acquisition of such amount of gold will be tracked and potentially permabanned. They did it with Overwatch, banning all the way to hardware ID. They have the technical capability and capacity to do that.
Last but not least, I don’t need a hardcore competitive gamer (that’s how he claim himself) to teach me how to live my life, especially a delusional one.
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Going with your thought train, Diablo 3 is also pay for power even if trading is no existent, since there are bunch of sites/people that are selling power leveling, multiboxed grift runs as well as unique drops (e.g. 500 uniques for x $).
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Diablo 3 is pay for power because people just buy a bot program and bot to advance in game.
Diablo 3 is a major bot fest. Trading didn’t stop that, it just made the game boring and did nothing to solve the botting problem.
Diablo 4 will have trading, because Blizzard is aware that it is needed. I just hope they realise if they make it too restricted to please whiners such as the OP, they’ll be seriously harming the longevity of their game. A lot of people play to mass wealth and items. But it’s pointless to do that if there is no meaningful trading.
Just give people like the OP an option to play self found only. Either through a seperate mode, or let them play with everyone else but with trading turned on, and a special name colour/tag so people can see how ‘pure’ they are.
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