I think people worry too much about RMT. While it is certainly sad that it exists, for multiple reasons (one that rarely comes up, is that RMT greatly increases account stealing/hacking, so they can sell it), by far the most harm from trading systems comes from the actual, legitimate trading between actual players. Simply because most of the trading will be done by them.
The source of the item is not that important (but again, not unimportant either), the fact that an item was traded, devalues the gameplay and makes for a lesser overall experience for the person(s) who got some item from the trade imo.
Did the devs of D4 at Blizzcon say whether or not gold will be bind on account like D3. That indeed is the simplest of solutions to the problem. If gold is bound to account then there is no way anyone can buy gold to gamble for items.
Exactly. I’m just using everyone’s own logic against them. I don’t really care what they mean by it as I don’t feel like there should be any restrictions at all. But every time someone says “x is restricted to trade in D4” I always say only mythics as it’s as much of an assumption as they are making.
Where did you read this lol?
You have absolutely no idea of this topic or you are trolling.
Currently leg/mythics are not tradeable items.
what do you mean bind to account? the game has no trading whatsoever. it never bound to your account, they just deleted the freedom to trade it. and no, trading for 2 hours with party members isn’t trading
it’s disappointing this game seems like it’s going to go the MMO/Diablo 3 trade route because blizzard’s too afraid of gold sellers or account sellers, and all that means is any item drops will be awarded to you when you’ve reached the acceptable time played threshold in an effort to keep the playerbase from disappearing. This sounds fine, but it removes any feeling of accomplishing anything
All characters on an account could access it (within a game mode), hence bound to account.
Compared to only being available to each individual character.
make gold non-tradeable
In that case all games are P2W because you can pay any third party to play your character if you want to risk it
I seem to know a lot more about it than you and am actually willing to look at the problem from both sides instead dismissing everything that is dissenting to my own opinion. I don’t feel like retyping so will just copy/past my reasons why free trade is the better option:
And then another response for people who don’t want trade for better drop rates and don’t want to have to learn the economy:
And finally just some other misc things that I believe provides some pros for open trade:
So yeah. I find trying to restrict trade simply to reduce RMT lazy of the company and ludicrous for the community to support.
You don’t know that. The ONLY thing they have said is: “The very best items are boa”. Well by definition the very best is only mythics. So stop talking out your a**.
What is this autistic thread about?
The fact that there’s a gambler NPC and he’s afraid that people will buy gold for real money and go gamble it away?
Yeah there’s a simple fix for that, Blizzard won’t allow that NPC to drop the best items in the game, just a bunch of mid to high end game trash to get people off the ground.
If dumb people want to gamble their real money away on a vendor then let them… they deserve it.
1 Like
You really have no idea why trading as a system is in the online games. I’ll try to explain it as simple as possible:
- Trading is a system that creates value from items not directly used by the player in his current gameplay builds
1*) Same thing could be achieved by an advanced crafting system (read below how)
- Trading is a system that offers social interaction to the players
2*) Same thing could be achieved by other systems stimulating social interaction especially in an MMO (no need to give explanation how) - Trading is a system that effectively changes the drop chances for those who use it
3*) No other system besides such that is PAY TO WIN could offer that
Let me explain more the last point:
Trading is a system that effectively and indirectly offers what P2W in many games offers directly aka buy crafting mats, gold from game company. Trading as such is the best system for the WHALES in a game that is not OFFICIALLY PAY TO WIN, but trading could make a game UNOFFICIALLY PAY TO WIN if not implemented properly, because the WHALES would be able to acquire everything needed from trading, just as they would if official P2W existed.
Stop this. They explicitly said “legendary items are not tradeable”. Go watch the panels.
We all have been through real life. There are people born rich. They can buy a nice brand new car in their first day of university. Meanwhile, I’m an average person that need to work part time and buy it in year 2 or 3.
If you love to talk about gambling then I have this. Similarly, a rich guy can just buy items in the sales to get tickets for a chance to obtain special prize (that kind of scheme exists a lot), which is a car. Hell, if he likes, he can offer to buy that car. Meanwhile, I have to work hard for a year to afford it.
But the most important thing is, as long as I work hard enough, no one is stopping me from buying that car. Most people in this world are fine with the existence of rich guys like I mention above. We are born into this world, that’s how things work. And we are mentally conditioned for that if we have lived long enough.
PvP? Yeah, I get into a car crash with a rich dude. I’m bulkier than him and trained in martial art too, but that guy either pays to call gangsters to group on me, or we go to court despite me being a trained lawyer, but he has a team of great lawyers, and that is how he pays to win. Do I cry like a baby if I lose the court? Nope, life is unfair and all people are used to it. Most let it be, some will work toward a better world, but that’s it.
The only problem I see in this thread is jealousy. Unless gamble is the only way to get mythic items, why should I care if a rich guy get it earlier than me? Day 5 into the game? So? Most of the time I would be solo or in my own group. D4 dev already decides that you can solo as long as you want and don’t care about interaction with others. Eventually my hard work will pay off. That, to me, is fair enough.
Last but not least, why is it a problem if a guy I know has a brand new car day 5 into university but I have to work my *ss off half a year to afford it? Most people think it’s pretty normal, except a guy here that say government needs to restrict trading so that the only way to buy a car is to work for it, and not asking money from parents.
We are adults, not crybabies. If I can’t buy a car day 5 into university, why should I prevent a guy with rich parents from buying it day 5? I will work hard for it and that’s it. A mythic item to players of D4 is definitely less valuable than a car to real life, so the argument that “oh you can work your *ss of the whole life but you won’t get it ever” is invalid. I will get it eventually with hard work and a bit of luck. Life is only unfair when I work my *ss off until 2 years and there is no way to get it ever, but this is not true. Mythic item drop rate is low, not zero.
P.S. Oh and I wonder if a wiz in D3, fully equipped with primals, can beat another skilled player in solo GR time if the former only spends his time trading, while the latter learns how to play solo Star Pact. D3 is like that and end game D4 will be like that. Items will always have an upper limit and player skills are what decide end game.
1 Like
(post deleted by author)
Because it may cripple the competition.
That is because you are not a competitive player I suppose.
A competitive player finds meaning not in owning stuff (having an expensive car in RL) as the dedicated player does. A competitive player finds meaning in comparing his skill (driving a car) to others. Thus a competitive player would be angry when a low skilled cap is in place (poor people not having the chance to get a driver license for automobiles) and make what is necessary to increase the skill cap (act/fight against accepted rules to offer poor people equal chance). Such player might often be viewed by others in a wrong light (regular people assigning jealousy in his actions), because they can’t view things from his pov (that competition is needed for survival).
I hope this clears things up at least partially.
1 Like
Cripple competition? Do you mean billions of people out there who don’t have a head start in life just give up? Then how do hundreds of billionaires and thousands of millionaires pop up everyday? From the sky?
Your argument about competition is a joke, or should I say shortsighted? Grown up adults understand there are privileged people with head start, but it doesn’t prevent them from trying hard to surpass those privileged people. And I’m pretty sure the majority of people will agree with me that surpassing a privileged player gives ways more satisfaction than caring about a petty head start.
You not only give a wrong definition of P2W but also have a wrong definition of competitiveness. True competitiveness is about improving oneself to surpass others. All I see is you bringing down others so you can be on top. Please tell me, is that the kind of “healthy competitiveness” you’re talking about?
RPG likes Diablo do reward players with skills. Yet your narrow perspective be like: oh he got a mythic at day 5, I will never beat him in PvP no matter how I grind and improve my game skill in the next few weeks. That’s a loser mentality.
P.S. Most players are casual.
1 Like
You are the one being shortsighted not understanding that:
The above IS crucial for an efficiency competition and if it goes live there won’t exist a meaningful efficiency competition in Diablo 4.
You are a casual for sure.
Again you miss the point of being competitive in the real world. It’s not about the wealth, it’s about the skills as I told you.
Spoiler alert: a video game is not real life.
1 Like
I’m not sure why these people are trying to dodge the real issue here.
Yes, game is not real life, but players are just as real, so are attitude and mental level.
Next, as I expected, this Skelos guy is a troll not to be taken seriously. I’m trying to become the guy who will get to end game gears after a few weeks and be able to beat a player who have head start at day 5, because I invest time to learn the game, practice the skills. Yet, my view for a few weeks is considered shortsighted when his view for the first 5 days is considered superior. Nice math.
Meaningful efficiency competition? There are so many goals for competition: gears, skills, leaderboard achievements. Yet this guy is 100% sure that if one guy get head start at day 5, the rest will never catch up. Every RPG out there has an upper limit on how item can dictate the game. Yet this guy thinks items are the only deciding factor. How narrow-minded.
Yes, I don’t deny I’m a casual player, because I have a real life to enjoy too. Gaming is only a small part of it. And I’m proud of being a casual player, because I can control my mind, my emotion how I would like to enjoy this game. Yet, there are people who claim to be pro, highly competitive when in fact they are a bunch of mentally unstable people who are easily affected by what happen to other people. Trump inherited millions from his dad, but does it affect Bill Gates from creating his Microsoft dynasty? Does a 5 day head start affect people like that at all, or it only affects mentally unstable people?
I raise the billionaires to prove one thing: someone can become a billionaire even if others already have a head start in life. Yes it’s not about the wealth, you said it. Then why the existence of other billionaires is a problem to you? My friend can inherit 10 million dollars from his dad while I’m broke with uni loan into life but a bunch of people who are equally broke like me get richer after a few years too, ways richer than the guy who inherits 10 million. Do those people complain if the guy gets 10 million early in life? No, because they know in the end they can do much better than that.
It’s some basic English reading skill yet I’m appalled there exist people that misunderstood my words. God bless them.
Does it matter though. You can luckily design games with other limitations and possibilities than those in real life. Essentially what makes it a game. You might certainly accept that you can’t design the game to avoid cheating, but at the outset that is the goal of all games.
The problem with your real life analogy is that it doesn’t boil down to an efficiency competition (case 1 below), but to other type of competition (case 2 below).
But since you are a casual I’ll try to explain you the difference as simple as possible:
- Efficiency is only possible to measure properly when time invested is taken into consideration. Getting “free” some item accountable for character progression destroys the time scale thus the proper measurement of efficiency thus the competition.
- Non-efficiency competitions in aRPG games do exist and won’t be spoiled by the whale getting the GG gear at day 5 as long as the other players have time to catch-up the stats progression of the whale and enough time to rank at the respective LB.
And I am not a troll (although you are not the first one thinking me for a troll), you are simply not educated enough on this type of topic. But that is not a problem itself, the problem is your overall attitude towards others which may put you in problematic RL situations one day (I am just giving you a precious life advice here), because you tend to value your judgment more than its actual worth on a topic you have not the full picture of.