Lore works pretty much fine. Please give a description of what you mean as lore because it was simply decided which direction Diablo could’ve go from the get go. The moment we learn about potential of Nephalem and worldstone being destroyed, earth’s fate became… whimsical, to say.
It’s inspired by Warhammer artstyle and tabletop Warhammer is something your granddad could’ve played. Ain’t that really obvious when you look at game directors? Brevik and Schaefer brothers played long lasting sequences of DnD and Whitewolf while Jay Wilson was a Warhammer fan.
Look at Warhammer: Vermintide series and perhaps Grim Dawn, you’ll see the same “carnavalesque” scent on their clothes and dresses. You can’t change anything about the game anymore now 8 years passed.
You’re creating a nagging scene and being in a constantly angry criticism state just because Diablo is not inspired by Dungeons and Dragons but an even older, maybe ancient, Warhammer realm. Both are role playing inspired titles, like it or not.
Appears you didn’t even play WoW and have an opinion about it too. I’d say just get over it but knowing next month we’ll have another of these threads, it also makes no sense to tell you that.
I’m pretty sure you didn’t say the game has no relation to the lore. You just complain whenever something doesn’t match up. Which is fine, but things not matching up perfectly doesn’t bother me, especially when you have lore that spans decades like both the Warcraft and Diablo universes do.
I mean, it strikes me as akin to complaining that Isaac Asimov’s combined universe isn’t perfect. And it isn’t - there’s problems because he tried to tie everything together much later instead of planning it from the start. But that shouldn’t stop you from enjoying his books.
An good modern game with non carnavalesque armor is Greedfall.
Yep. The worldstone got destroyed and now humans are far more powerful, but somehow, necros can’t animate bodies for 16 seconds, nor create a powerful golem if they are unarmed… Much consistency…
Wrong. The problem is that D3 has way less RPG on it than any survival game that I have played.
The game mechanics would be a better therm.
Having for eg, a “revive” potion, spell, alien technology, whatever and it only working in combat and having no use on cutscenes just makes the game worse and the player less engaged.
Case in point: Any death in any RPG with a revival item. Phantasy Star 4, Half of the Final Fantasies, Star Ocean 2 to name a few.
Mechanics often don’t follow any semblance of reality or even lore. Just the very concept of casting a fireball from one’s hands breaks reality and lore.
Because fire is supposed to burn. But this magic fire never burns anything. Not the hands of the people casting them, not the skin of the enemies it hits, or the terrain surrounding them.
Or is the lore in Diablo that normal fire burns, and magic fire doesn’t burn, except when it does burn corpses for scenery?
Because they had different art directors and game directors, while weaved upon another realm. You just complain about 70s-80s fashion sense in fantasy realm scriptures and have enthusiasm to go with it for months.
There’s a thing called “game balance”, back in D2 that was a broken skill to begin with. If it wasn’t broken you’d be allowed to wail upon anyone in PvP with skeletons but that’s not the case.
Also let’s ask the question which necromancer deals more damage and benefits more from the items they wear? May be that’s the power of nephalem? Being fashionable can be something.
Game balance, as casters didn’t even need weapons in D2 and D1. Do you really think they would gonna turn a blind eye to the naked Hell Baal kills and won’t attempt to iron it out? In what sense you wanted a controlled market (Auction House) to make it easier for you to kill bosses for rare loot just because you reached “that level”?
That must be a bait but whatever. Diablo is not a survival game… That’s first. Secondly, if high chairs didn’t demand game to cater to a larger crowd then game would be complicated. Watered down mechanics ensure your game sells more by the unit, as it will have mass appeal and as a return it will always offer linear experience.
There’s a darn emergency at the outside world, and all you care about is tooting your horn every month and opening another complaint thread about D3 while giving free feedback thread to the developer team by baiting responses. I must say, it’s not an admirable task by any ounce of sense.
Only in this JRPGs which honestly never cared much about making lore and mechanics in line. I mean, pick might & magic 8 - day of the destroyer for eg. One of the quests involve finding the remains of a powerful vampire, so the necromancers can cast reanimate and bring him back.
Reanimate works with quest members, npcs, mobs in the map, anything. Including dragons(but require gran maestry and high level on dark magic since they have a lot of hp, you need a lot of dark magic to revive then)
On Arcanum, Resurrect can be cast on anything that you see and is dead. Conjure spirit too. You can use both spells to solve quests in different ways.
Many games also don’t even have ressurection spells. And I as not talking about no fantasy games like fallout new vegas. VtMB has no ressurection spell, Gothic 1/2/3 too, no resurrection spell. A lot of games doesn’t have this problem with ressurection.
PS : As for your example of fireball, my impression is that the fire is contained inside the ball before thrown.
Still making ZERO SENSE.
So why not make barbarians dependent on corpses since necros are? Or monks dependent on ammo?
Yep. Is a ARPG with far less RPG on it than conan exiles, rust and etc…
Game balance doesn’t care about your senses. It only sustains a controllable market and irons down any imbalances between classes. Just because you’re lvl99 doesn’t mean you supposed to take on end of game boss without needing any damn equipment as a few certain classes.
That ends up with economic deflation and power scale growing rather favoring these classes where you supposed to consider that. Especially, while balancing them at the upcoming patches. Weapon requirement not only allowed them to keep a flow on the market, it also allowed them to balance everything at one go.
At least made me smile. Necromancer corpses are just a secondary resource to their already existing one and I believe you can’t scale something you harvest in the game with currencies.
Only a few characters would be obliged to buy weapons if they were to go with the original design where casters were not dependent on equipment and people would be obliged to play them. This wouldn’t be a problem if D3 had any off-class options like D2 but they ditched that to reduce server load.
Sacred 1 and Sacred 2 have the design points you mention, some classes there don’t even use some certain equipment slots and no other weapon than their main; but these games didn’t have any live market to speak of.
Survival makes something an RPG? There are zombie island shooters like 7 days to die, Rust at steam then Minecraft with widely renowned “survival” elements. I don’t think they’re role play games.
You get your usual MMO-lite tank, dps, boss killer roles in Diablo 3 though; because there’s no off-class options, profession is everything at the design and it can not go any other way.
Even if it’s lacking real roles or bonds that you might have with those characters at the form of investments or allocations, D3 is still an ARPG with action emphasis. Seeing next title will be an MMO-lite with 25 player boss raids, you can complain but I doubt it’d change anything.
They has more character decision than diablo. Stats that measure your character capabilities, did you played Conan Exiles? SCUM? Rust? If wasn’t by old school RPG games and few modern games trying to be amazing like they, i would be considered RPG a dead genre and moved to this survival games long time ago…
Wrong.
Did you even touched D1? You need tomes.
And change a very popular class to be JUST A RESKIN of a less popular class is the WORST way to balance things. As you mentioned, Sacred has the rune system. Diablo 1 had the tomes. Is a way to make casters more loot dependnet without making then a barb reskin.
And guess waht. D4 will bring arsenal system to Barb and lets hope that they will not make casters into barb reskins. Nobody deserves it.
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And looks like you recognized that this AWFUL decision of making every class a Barb reskin is due RMAH. Not cuz it will improve the gameplay.
You must cheer up. Minecraft Dungeons coming soon.
Wrong, you don’t need any, Do Diablo 1 have a live controlled market? No. Wrong. It only has dupes. Do Sacred have a live controlled market? No. Wrong again. It doesn’t have one.
Not even D2 had a live officially controlled market as of now to speak.
Once had always had and their prices won’t budge, it won’t be flexible like a piece of equipment with many variables. Tomes and such will be constants with only one variable modifier, perhaps rare and it will be harder to haggle for them. Make it abit abundant and no one even considers buying them so you go back to square one with stagnant market. Also it comes with issues while patching as skill growth can be limited somehow to balance it.
It could be an addition for D4, I wouldn’t know. Again, it depends on how class based restrictions work so far and game has to make off-class options available.
Or make tomes differently. For eg, instead of reading a firebolt tome and if you fullfil the mag requirement, getting a level, have many “levels” that can spawn and to upgrade, you need to read a stronger version.
Because the devs chose to have no team damage. But there are so many games with team damage…
But how does this change the fact that there is no ingame lore reason for that?
How does this change the fact that it doesn’t make sense?
My point is that not everything has to make sense, because too much RPG Realism (aka everything making sense) can also hurt the game (like introducing friendly fire into the Diablo series).
Where’s the lore reason for being able to kill Mephisto a dozen times?
Where’s the lore reason for being able to get multiple of the same unique item, but they have slightly different stats?
Where’s the lore reason for Nightmare and Hell difficulty? The story just resets but the game is somehow harder, but you keep equipment you got off the Prime Evils you already killed…
Where’s the lore reason for being killed but you end up back in camp naked and have to get your own corpse to get your gear back?
Cool you managed to answer 1/3 of it. Why doesn’t it burn the corpse? Why doesn’t it burn the ground?
You’re just going to have to get over the fact that this isn’t DND. This isn’t Baldur’s Gate 3, or any other RPG where they intentionally design mechanics as a part of gameplay and not because of lore. Like resurrect spells.
Which D2, 3 and 4 don’t have anyway so why does it matter? Corpse Resurrection is just a temporary thing so it doesn’t matter if you can’t use it on good guys. Why would you want them to be a horrible dead corpse monster before they completely decay?
How is that inconsistent?
Where does the lore say that a necromancer should be able to animate bodies for more than 16 seconds, or create powerful golems without having a sharp axe equipped.
And if you say D2 allowed it, maybe d2 was the one that was off from the lore?
In many classic RPGs you have two states, character is knocked down, or is dead. It would be pretty easy to think of Diablo chars merely being knocked down, while the deaths in cutscenes are actual deaths.
Caveat: That wouldn’t be “introducing” friendly fire - Diablo 1 had friendly fire. Which made it tons of fun to play a teleporting chain lightning spamming sorcerer in a group, let me tell you.
BRO, Gothic 2 is NOTHING like Diablo. NO ONE wants Diablo to be like Gothic 2. Just go play gothic 2 if you want that… or play any of the other numerous games you bring up…
They are TOTALLY different games. I’m all for RPG-realism and such that is fitting for the isometric ARPG genre. Some things don’t fit - like reagents…
So… Diablo 1 was bad because you couldn’t bring Albrecht back to life after you killed Diablo? And Diablo 2 was bad because you couldn’t bring Tal Rasha back after Baal died?
Here’s the problem. Everything you propose to make zero sense is COMPLETELY ARBITRARY. As others have pointed out here, there are a ton of situations and mechanics that have no lore behind them but which you accept anyway. And that makes your complaint a prime example of “Get over yourself.”
The ethernal war, they simple reform in pit of the hell.
But look. I din’t said that Diablo is a perfect example of lore and mechanics in line. Only that D1/D2 are much better than D3.
Because would require too much work to implement all of this things. I an all for spells affecting the scenario, it would be amazing. Few games tried to do that like dark messiah of might & magic…
This is why D1 is the best diablo.
I an not saying that Diablo should be like Gothic 2. And I already have over 500 hours on gothic 2 + returning 2.0 and probably more than 1k hours on all 3 gothic games.
Anyway, seems that Diablo is receiving a lot of influence by CD projekt red. And CD projekt red got heavily gothic influences on the witcher.
There are no ressurection spell on diablo. Lore or in game. That spell was prototyped but removed since it would trivialize hardcore…
