Even necro mains wanted the bone ringer to be nerfed. It was exploitive and awful to play. Almost nobody is sad that it is gone, and necros will lose at least 8 grs because of it. I highly doubt a lod mage necro can push much past 120 solo. If you look at the necro leaderboards the top spots are thorn necros. Once that is nerfed the necros will not be OP at all. And I’m perfectly happy with that.
Vrytodos, while not exploitative in that it doesn’t abuse unintended game mechanics, was given more of a buff than originally intended by blizz… They even said that. Dealing massive damage and being invulnerable with high maneuverability and a moderately low skill requirement doesn’t make a build good, it makes it OP. Since you referenced necros, take a look at them : almost all of their builds deal high damage but are squishy and for gr pushing have mixed mobility capabilities , but they don’t get all three attributes of high damage, high toughness and high mobility.
Update:
After some testing by sVr and I, it appears that Chantodo’s damage is reduced by a flat 4/7 (or 1/1.75) compared to live.
That works out to a ln(4/7)/ln(1.17) = -3.5 GR nerf. That corresponds pretty closely to the 3-5 GRs that Cratic and I were estimating.
Good to know. 
3 GRs seems low. I used to be able to do 128s, now I struggle to do 125s. Not as bad as the nerf was first advertised (-10!!)
End of the day when next patch goes Live . Wizard Speeds are now a complete thing of the past. Its like Blizzard intentionally make 1 specific class each season OP
You can’t really compare the top of the various leaderboards to one another, because the top players are all playing a wizard. The difference of 10 you speak of is likely 5 from the greater talent pool and 5 from the build strength. And the difference of 10 only exists between the wiz and two other classes, not all six. The average gap is 6.
So actually that seems exactly right then. He said 3.5, so you struggling to do a 125 is spot on from doing 128 before.
Had wizard been nerfed and nothing else changed, that wouldn’t be true at all. 3-5 GR wouldn’t really be enormously impactful, but because WW/Rend is a thing now that will reign true as likely that will be the new speed meta besides Rats of course.
Even if by PTR adjustments they both do around the same damage, players will prefer the WW/Rend barb because
- A: Barbs haven’t been a dps thing in quite awhile
- B: Its much more mobile
- C: Easier to play
SPEED META
Speed meta for like 4 or 5 seasons, since the introduction of Necro, has included Necro Mage aka “Rat Runs”. Bone Ringer Necro has been a solid RGK spec. However, when 1 class (Necromancer) can be boss killer, trash killer, and main zDPS support that my good friend pretty much solidifies that class as the strongest class in the game.
FROZEN STATUES
Re-read my statement about the river of tears from vanilla D3 with regard to frozen statues. The devs knew about this and the reasoning why the devs removed the Critical Mass passive (and didn’t bother to replace it with something else). Regardless of the reasoning they put the Frozen Lands rune in the Necro repertoire. Land of the Dead is a critical part of many popular Necro builds.
So…
- How come Wizard Frost Nova is still crap (a 2 sec freeze) and engages with the monster CC immunity mechanic… especially after the introduction of Frozen Lands?
- Should I complain about the Frozen Lands, Frozen Statues, Brittle Touch combo (don’t expect it from me)?
MOBILITY
These sweet little booties ==> ~https://us.diablo3.com/en/item/steuarts-greaves-P6_Necro_Unique_Boots_21~
… and when combined with this ~https://us.diablo3.com/en/item/ingeom-Unique_Sword_1H_113_x1~
… it means the necromancer has the best teleport in the game
Wizard Teleport is governed by its 11 sec CD as well as the Wizard’s current ApS. So if a wizard has low ApS, teleporting looks like the 1980’s jump movements of Q-bert (slow animation). Even if you have a CD of zero because of In-geom the teleport animation is still slower/sluggish.
Q-bert ==> ~https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKIbhaQfs-A~
(be careful not to fall out of your chair from laugher)
Necro teleport is much closer to a Monk’s Dash because it has a much tighter teleport animation. However, when a Vyr-Archon Wizard has enough stacks in archon form to vastly speed up the animation (attack speed) and employ Zodiac to drop the CD, then the Wizard’s mobility approaches Necro teleport. The difference is Wizards have ramp up time to get there.
The other way to get infinite teleport the Wizard has to use: ~https://us.diablo3.com/en/item/aether-walker-P1_Wand_norm_unique_01~
If the Aether Walker (AW) is used you can expect to be drop-kicked in the damage department. It removes The Furnace. The only time I think Vyr-Chantodo Wizard use AW is in the cube in a fast bounty runner build. With AW you can forget about clearing GR130 with 800-1000 paragon and rank 110-120 gems solo. Running AW while in a GR party will get you kicked from party.
CHANTODO SET
The set was trash until the rework 2 seasons ago. In a way, the trash status of pre-rework chantodo, is partly why reverse archon gained popularity. Of course those who really enjoy Archon cried that its terrible to have side effect (reverse archon) be stronger than Archon form. In their reasoning Archon Form is suppose to be the Wizard’s Ultimate much like Barb’s Wrath of the Berserker. Chantodo was used to satisfy those who really like the Archon form game play. The devs succeeded in making Vyr-Chantodo Archon vastly outstrip reverse archon without removing reverse archon, and took Chantodo off the auto-salvage list.
Chantodo does not make a Wizard invulnerable. The Vyr set does not make it invulnerable either. The defense has a ramp up time so there is vulnerability. Load up the d3 planner and see for yourself:
~https://www.d3planner.com/461571778~
My advice:
1 - Enjoy the game. Have fun. Enjoy chasing the leaderboards with friends.
2 - Stop the b**ching and complaining. Stop crying for nerfs.
3 - Convince other players to join you in asking for buffs to the other classes.
I don’t see the problem really. It’s not a huge nerf 3.5GR. Sure you can’t speed on vyr chant as you could before, but you still have rats, it’s not like wizard is out of meta for 4p push / speeds.
There are other classes in dire needs for buffs / updates OR even finding a spot in a 4m group (hello WD).
The sky is not falling. Having WW barb good for speeds is great, because guess what? That’s another alternative to rat runs. More speed group comps = more diversity, more classes / specs get in, more peeps play and have fun and progression. Healthy game is good! <3
Chantodo outstripped everything regarding archon, including the archon abilities themselves, which shouldn’t even be a thing.
ahahaah… nerfed. ahhahha!
Rework Vyrs. Make it empower Archon abilities. Rework Chantodo’s to become a 2PC universal option for all wizard builds (like cooldown reduction or arcane power regen or something, but not DMG, so that you can buff rest of sets and LoN / LoD builds too).
Sounds great? Good plan? Execute! <3
I don’t believe a rework would be necessary for Vyr, they can just have either the 4 piece or 6 piece effect boost the archon skills themselves. As for reworking chantodo; I wouldn’t mind that too much, unfortunately I believe the time window to rework it has passed, as too many people are accustomed to it.
There is no such thing in an ARPG. Look at Wrath of Wastes, For 7 years rend was useless and nobody used it, guess what coming in a month? Rend main dmg dealer baby. Out of the blue.
The point of my previous post what that, for example, if you look at Barb, we have 2x 2PC sword sets, and they can both work in multiple builds (mind you not perfect fit, but still). Chantodo only works with Vyr’s, that’s it. You won’t see it in any other builds because it does nothing for them (not even starpact who does use Archon for boosting meteor dmg).
That was due to a buff via added numbers and a newly added legendary power, not a rework. My point is that, with the exception of a few things, reworks are less likely to happen (unfortuantely) this late in the game. Don’t get me wrong, I would actually like it if chantodo became a set that could be used by a number of wizard builds instead of a few; I’ve even suggested such a rework a few years ago in a previous ptr. But chances of that happening now is incredibly low.
Well hope dies last, that’s why Diablo keeps returning! (te he he he! he never loses hope that some idiot hero will plant the stone in his / her forehead) ^^
I put that Chantoto build together starting about a month ago, I haven’t played Wiz much since ROS, even with shabby items and limited skill with the build, I found it fun and very entertaining. I tried it on the PTR last night and I have to agree, they have over done it with the Nurf and that is very sad.
Please revert the Nurf and make the build fun again.
Yes, I did the same thing about a month ago. I’ve been playing DH mostly, and thought I’d try the Wiz. Also, having fun with it !
Too bad about the nerf. I really don’t understand who it helps to nerf it rather than raising the other classes. Be nice of they revert the nerf.
I’m not a class bigot and will play whatever is fun.
Hope they don’t nerf the barb. I used to be a WW in the early days of D2 whirling through the Flayer jungle. Should be fun to try WWing again.
Yes Blizzard, please revert this change !