Blizzard one simple change for Wizards - add damage multiplier to Aetherwalker

[clueso-2790]

@Lexa-2365

Just a question - why would you castrate things the very moment you introduce them? I mean, IF Teleport cooldown is reduced to 6 seconds then Oculus having that legacy blue affix suddenly becomes interesting.

Or overpowered.

@Lexa-2365

I suggested changing AW for the very reason that it’s a single item to modify and it will still improve things dramatically.

Yes, but then it also could cause what you called “issues at (un)expected places”, not necessarily with Teleport, The Oculus or the Illusionist Passive, but with build balance (similar to how Deathwish + old Etched Sigil did it in the past), at least if the damage bonus is too powerful.

@Lexa-2365

From my perspective, three things are important:

• technical repairs: fix the pathing and increase the animation speed

Technical repairs might even a lot more development time than implementing your and mine suggested changes combined, since you first have to find and analyse the issue.

Increasing the animation speed might be easy, depending on what the issue is with it.

But in case it is also a deeper rooted problem, I would not count on that.

@Lexa-2365

• change Teleport skill to either resource or charges, or reduce its cooldown

Yes, this definitely would be easy.

A few month ago iirc I made an illustration about how it could look like to edit the gamefiles of D3 based on my experiences with modding D2. It of course is very, very, oversimplified.

That estimate was based on how modding worked in D2, which looks like what the guy is doing in the video I linked above in one of my earlier posts, or in these screenshots I made from modding some of the actual D2 files.

According to the devs it is even easier to do these things in D3, and you have individual files (or ‘Snows’ as they are called according to Jay Wilson) for every single skill and probably every singe item as well.

Jay said that you just have to open the file and change the numbers, so it apparently is very easy to do that.

@Lexa-2365

micro cooldown

Removing the micro cooldown should also be easy, if it also is located in the game files.

@Lexa-2365

if Teleport is not changed to resources, Aetherwalker needs a moderate dmg %

Yeah, that is all nice, but it would not help the general Wizards mobility. You still only would be mobile if you have Aetherwalker and to not overpower the damage bonus, it would not be be competitive, which means it rarely would be used at all, except maybe for niche builds or speedfarming.

My point is that even if you are looking for a easy and quick solution, that still might not be the best one. But you are definitely right that it still would be better than what we have right now.

[Lexa-2365]

@clueso-2790

Or overpowered.

I don’t think so.

@clueso-2790

Yes, but then it also could cause what you called “issues at (un)expected places”, not necessarily with Teleport, The Oculus or the Illusionist Passive, but with build balance (similar to how Deathwish + old Etched Sigil did it in the past), at least if the damage bonus is too powerful.

I think 150-200% is reasonable. It’s lower than DW or skill specific items. And it shouldn’t be any lower because then the situation won’t change much from what we have now. It would not be viable at all.

@clueso-2790

Increasing the animation speed might be easy, depending on what the issue is with it.

Shouldn’t be an issue - just increase the Teleport “attack speed” by 200% and the issue should be dealt with. Archon Teleport shows how it works at very high aps. Pathing is a different beast, though. EDIT: Teleport might also need a technical change, so that its base speed (at 1.0) is what it’s like today, but then scales with higher attack speed.

As for the micro cooldown. They introduced it later on, they can remove it or set it close to zero. Shouldn’t pose much of a threat. My list at the end should be the bare minimum we need and in the order of importance.

[clueso-2790]

@Lexa-2365

As for the micro cooldown. They introduced it later on, they can remove it or set it close to zero.

If that is the case the only remaining issue is to locate where the column is in the skill files that is responsible for this micro cooldown.

@Lexa-2365

Shouldn’t be an issue - just increase the Teleport “attack speed” by 200% and the issue should be dealt with.

Has Teleport always been like this, even in vanilla?

I just wonder what the reason for that is. It is either because the base attack speed of that skill is low, in which case it should be easy to adjust it, or it is because of some deeper programming issue. I don’t know, I had to look into the gamefiles themself.

@Lexa-2365

@clueso-2790

Or overpowered.

I don’t think so.

hmm, unlimited Teleport for no resource costs and (almost) no cooldown is hefty, but it would come at the cost of an orb, which means you loose a few hundred percentages of damage boosts.

It still feels unbalanced to me, even though you loose an xxx% damage increase from the orb.

@Lexa-2365

I think 150-200% is reasonable.

I can agree that this is a reasonable amount.

[Lexa-2365]

@clueso-2790

If that is the case the only remaining issue is to locate where the column is in the skill files that is responsible for this micro cooldown.

As far as I remember the micro-cooldown is added by using Aetherwalker. It can only happen when you play with that wand anyways. The true potetial is how the skill acts when you can port a second time (= Wormhole rune). That being said, it might be necessary to have a micro-cooldown of sorts, but it has to be shortend significantly.

[clueso-2790]

@Lexa-2365

@clueso-2790

If that is the case the only remaining issue is to locate where the column is in the skill files that is responsible for this micro cooldown.

As far as I remember the micro-cooldown is added by using Aetherwalker.

Or it is on the skill and the runes themself, except Wormhole, that was my thinking.
So Aetherwalker would not add something, but rather trigger what is already there on all runes except Wormhole (I have to admit I never ever used Reversal other then to see how it works several years ago).

Skills like Battle Rage also have a micro cooldown iirc to prevent them from spamming it accidentally.

@Lexa-2365

That being said, it might be necessary to have a micro-cooldown of sorts, but it has to be shortend significantly.

I personally think it is fine without it. Teleport then would work similarly to Dashing Strike in regards to using it a few times one after the other.

[Sardaukar-2915]

@EasyFrank-2909

So which classes have worse mobilty than Wizard? I can’t find any.

@naksiloth-1354

This statement alone invalidates everything you could ever come up with.

Taken from another thread for your education (credit to Alex).

@alex-26372

It’s not only teleport/aether walker: it’s everything that has to do with mobility in general that’s severely lacking in wizard compared with other skills. Here are some examples:

Wizard

1. teleport has 11 sec cooldown and you need a weapon slot to make it work with aether walker (which, in turn, requires passive and/or active skills for AP, like arcanot)
2. Illusionist is a good passive but you need to get hit. Scramble gives speed bonus but you need to get hit (notice a pattern here?) and power of storm is a lot more useful for many builds. Sleek shell gives speed bonus but diamond skin really needs ingeom or very high cd to work.
3. One set that improves mobility, Vyr (through archon)

Witch doctor

1. Has the best lazy long-range speed combo of the game, angry chicken and manajuma
2. Spirit walk makes you invulnerable and with Severance, extremely fast. Cooldown 10 sec that starts after spirit walk ends, but Grave injustice easily gives you infinite SW at speeds, the best CDR skill in the game.
3. Many easy to use skills for added speed: fierce loyalty, big bad voodoo, stalker, soul to waste

Barbarian

1. Raekor 2p gives you almost infinite charge, depending on map (for zbarb, charger)
2. Easy to use +speed skills (some of them passively): marathon, bravado, pound of flesh, ferocity, Chilanik + war cry
3. BK swords: huge speed bonus and take care of resource

Crusader

1. Steed by itself is weak due to 16 sec cooldown, but updated norvald set is a game changer since not only does it double duration and decreases cooldown when killing, but now it gives a huge damage bonus as well.
2. Other bonus to speed like flash or wings of angels typically have long cooldown and mostly require ORotZ

Monk

1. Has infinite dash, the fastest build in the game
2. Two sets (raiment, PoJ) have built-in mobility bonus
3. Dash has 2-3 charges and 8 sec cooldown. Epiphany dashes to melee.
4. Some easy to use speed bonus if you want to use them (like fleet footed, annihilation)

Necromancer

1. Blood rush: 5 sec cooldown, can get charges, supported by an entire set and multiple passives
2. Easy speed skills: fueled by death, harvest of anguish
3. Non-weapon items that greatly improve speed with trivial requirements like steuart and lost time

Demon hunter

1. Two sets with infinite mobility: GoD, Impale
2. Vault costs resource by default. Cost can be greatly mitigated at standard play (RCR with CC, tumble) or nullified for speed scenarios (chain of shadows, danetta)
3. Two speed passives (tactical advantage - great combo with vault, and hot pursuit)

I’m certainly missing skills here and there, but the comparison is not at all favorable for wizard. We need better +speed skills, not only better teleport.

[naksiloth-1354]

@Sardaukar-2915

Taken from another thread for your education (credit to Alex).

You have a 2 second teleport with Archon regardless of using Vyr. Is it hard to tell or you’re selective on your high damage number skills all it can fit to a 6 slot action bar? I ask Wizard players a question, do you have to use Vyr’s to get Archon with all those items offering Archon stacks, available to you?

You don’t have to use Vyr to get Archon Teleport skillrune. In case you don’t like giving away dmg for mobility then it’s too bad because that’s the trade off for you. Are you intentionally lefting this out to beg a damage buff for? All other classes have to use other Sets for mobility too, big deal. All the ruckus is for having to give away Improved Archon?

Manajuma and Steed are 2 piece sets for speedfarm and you’re complaining about having to use one slot Aether Walker by giving away “too much” while you always have the option of taking Archon Teleport, Illusionist or use Zodiac for your speedbuilds if you don’t like plain Teleport.
Do teleport or any kind of high mobility have any place or importance for push builds at all? Does it make sense to you to claim Wizards having the worst mobility while you can easily squeeze mobility skills, items and bonuses for speedfarm builds?

For a push build giving away mobility is a trade off for damage increase and it will stay that way. There’s no way to balance things around Wizards unless you’re willing to go that mile and overbuff them at terms of time efficiency.

As for other classes, Crusaders and Barbarians are beasts with Falling Swords, Charge/Leap builds at terms of mobility and damage but that’s because they’re melee combat classes and need to cover the distance quickly. Their other specs don’t have that luxury either.
Infinite Dash monks either have to use a legendary fist weapon item or a Set for it to chain, without them they’re low on mobility uptime too. WD have all their skills be at close quarters again and they have to use 2-pieces Set for speed but I don’t hear them complaining, with long cooldown SWalk.

[Sardaukar-2915]

@naksiloth-1354

You have a 2 second teleport with Archon regardless of using Vyr. Is it hard to tell or you’re selective on your high damage number skills all it can fit to a 6 slot action bar? I ask Wizard players a question, do you have to use Vyr’s to get Archon with all those items offering Archon stacks, available to you?

You don’t have to use Vyr to get Archon Teleport skillrune. In case you don’t like giving away dmg for mobility then it’s too bad because that’s the trade off for you. Are you intentionally lefting this out to beg a damage buff for? All other classes have to use other Sets for mobility too, big deal. All the ruckus is for having to give away Improved Archon?

Not sure if I follow you, but it seems you’re basically saying that if Wizards want mobility they just need to pick Archon and shut up which is basically where we are stuck now. And mind you that even with teleport Wizards do get outrunned quite easily in my experience. And let’s not forget that the Teleport skill in itself has problems with it’s horrid pathfinding and 1 sec internal CDR.

It’s also good to remember that not everyone likes Archon and wouldn’t you say it’s pretty sad that the Archon skill has a better rune for Teleport then the Teleport skill itself?

And sure you can just pick Archon with the Teleport Rune and have a 2 sec cooldown. However that 2 second only works while in Archon, so outside of Archon you either don’t teleport (i.ow. you walk) or you have to put the skill on the bar (and usually this means the Illusionist passive as well). Besides that Archon is basically glued to VYR (well, okay LOD works to if we’re talking reverse Archon) so it’s not as simple as running a for instance running with a Typhon Veil build and swapping one skill out for mobility.

And outside Archon/VYR? Well, sure you can put up TP with the rune Wormhole on your bar which give you 2 teleports, but you need Illusionist as well. Problem in speeds is that you need to get hit, which is somewhat of lousy mechanic in itself, to reset the CDR, but the bigger problem is that in a group, especially when you play with build that can clear complete screens like DH, you don’t get hit and that leaves you with 2 teleports followed by 11 second (or 8 if the CDR starts after the first teleport, don’t know which) you walk while your party member fly ahead of you. And even if you’re playing solo, for you to get hit usually means that you have to stand still. Not really what we want now do we?

But Aether Walker I can almost hear your mention? Well first of all AW is usually a massive gimp in our DPS. Look, I don’t mind sacrificing some DPS, but because AW is a weapon we loose a massive amount of DPS. Not just because AW itself dps wise is total sh**, but also because the weapon slot usually is slot that’s directly to mechanics of the build (Chantodo, Twistersword, Deathwish). Better that they would have made it a belt or a ring.

Also 25 AP is a pretty steep price to pay for one teleport compared to the resource cost other classes have to pay for their mobilty. And it basically means that usually after 4 or 5 teleports you’re done and then you need to generate AP. And that means that you either have to stand still and cast a primary skill to generate AP again or stand still, wait for your AP to replenish itself and maybe cast a skill in the hope to replenish it faster. That if you have something to cast on … remember group play? You might find yourself with very little monsters you use to generate AP off so you run with your basic 25% movement speed waiting for your AP to be replenished so you can teleport again. By which time your party member already have moved a couple of screens further since their mobility works a lot better.

I bet you that if we were to do rifts and make the goal the first to reach the end Pylon the Wizard will finish dead last every time.

So yeah, I think Wizards have some legitimate claims that their mobility could use some work.

[Lexa-2365]

@Sardaukar-2915

It’s also good to remember that not everyone likes Archon and wouldn’t you say it’s pretty sad that the Archon skill has a better rune for Teleport then the Teleport skill itself?

I HATE Archon… I really do. And gating mobility behind a skill that has 120 sec cooldown without Vyr (2) kinda defeats the purpose no matter how you look at it. That being said, as mentioned, Illusionist does not really work in speed farm builds, because you need to take damage. Normally mobs are dead before you even can take enough damage. Not to mention wizards also rely on shields to keep certain buffs like Squirts up. What happens if we need to take damage to reset Teleport? Yup… exactly.

This kind of design was never good but it was at least tolerable at earlier stages of game development. Nowadays it feels outdated and suffocating. I’m normally a 99% wizard player and after testing around a little with other classes mobility skills I can easily tell one thing. Their options feel more fluent and overall better, especially on a technical level.

If Wizard’s Teleport skill had the same mechanic like Necros (with charges and 5 second recharge time) then the Necromancer would still be superior thanks to Teleports horrible pathing that gets stuck on literally everything that isn’t empty space - what a joke. Just copy the damn code if you must. Can’t be that hard.

[clueso-2790]

@Lexa-2365

Not to mention wizards also rely on shields to keep certain buffs like Squirts up. What happens if we need to take damage to reset Teleport? Yup… exactly.

I played Twister Wizard for the last few days (with Teleport - Wormhole and Slow Time, Magic Wepon - Deflection, Galvanizing Ward and Illusionist) and apparently Illusionist also procs and resets Teleport and Slow Time when the damage gets absorbed from your Energy Shield.

Or at least something was resetting my Teleport and Slow Time.

[Oblivion-1520]

@clueso-2790

I played Twister Wizard for the last few days (with Teleport - Wormhole and Slow Time, Magic Wepon - Deflection, Galvanizing Ward and Illusionist) and apparently Illusionist also procs and resets Teleport and Slow Time when the damage gets absorbed from your Energy Shield.

Yes, illusionist will proc even if the damage you’ve taken is absorbed through your shields; so long as you’ve taken the required amount of damage that is. In other words, if you’re using wizard’s shielding effects, then your health doesn’t actually need to drop in order for illusionist to proc.

[Lexa-2365]

It’s been a while since I used Illusionist. That might work at times. But still, kinda defeats the purpose if squishy wizards need to take a hit for mobility. Also, good luck on getting Illusionist to work as reliable in speeds - and you should avoid the shield pylons unless you want to walk…

[clueso-2790]

@Lexa-2365

That might work at times.

@Lexa-2365

Also, good luck on getting Illusionist to work as reliable in speeds

I didn’t pay attention to how reliable it is or if it always works (especially since there is no visual shield indicator around the health globe, but based on my feeling Teleport was available very often.

@Lexa-2365

But still, kinda defeats the purpose if squishy wizards need to take a hit for mobility.

Illusionist might need an update (in combination with Teleport). I always thought of Illusionist to be more something like a failsave, rather than something which fantasy revolves around mobility.

What I found fascinating with that Wizard (who also used Stone Gauntlets) was that I could face tank several Molten explosions one after the other.

One thing that makes it so strong is that damage first has to go through the Deflection shield. I don’t know how many stacks of Deflection I regularly have, but from what I heard, Hydra Wizards with Electrocute and the massive attack speed buffs from Fragment of Destiny and The Shame of Delsere can get ridiculous amounts of Deflection Shield stacks. Maybe that should be capped at 10 or so - would also be worth a discussion.

@Oblivion-1520

Yes, illusionist will proc even if the damage you’ve taken is absorbed through your shields;

I also just figured that out a few days ago.

[naksiloth-1354]

@Sardaukar-2915

so outside of Archon you either don’t teleport (i.ow. you walk)

So does Monks when they exhaust their Dash charges out of combat and not having up time at Epiphany. You brought Monks’ Epiphany by quoting another individual and I’m telling you how similar they are actually.
Demon Hunters, Barbarians, Crusaders, Monks; all bound to their ultimate transformation to deal damage and negate crowd control and you’re complaining about Wizards lacking mobility because you “hate” or “don’t like” Archon. You even have alternative options to substitute for it via passives.

@Sardaukar-2915

And outside Archon/VYR? Well, sure you can put up TP with the rune Wormhole on your bar which give you 2 teleports, but you need Illusionist as well.

Also you need Unwavering Will incase you get pinned at a push build too but it’s not mandatory for a speedfarm build. You’re counting so many choices and not considering any of them to be practical then? Why are you playing a Wizard?

By class theme, they’re mobile but also given tons of crowd control with debuffs and on top of that, they’re ranged, they don’t need to chase anything at all. None of your complaints prove Wizards lacking any kind of mobility, it just proves that they have a distinctive line inbetween a push and a speedfarm build.

@Sardaukar-2915

Besides that Archon is basically glued to VYR

Wizards have Aether Walker just clogging one slot while 'saders have 2-piece Steed, Witch Docs have 2-piece Manajuma. Vyr is the only thing that offers a similar trade off with its 2-piece bonus with most crucial ones being Teleport and Improved Archon skill runes.
Still, Vyr is not glued to Archon and you don’t have to have Vyr’s if you need some mobility at your speedfarm build as you can squeeze one of the free Archon stacks legendaries in the build. In case you’re really concerned, no one prevents you from grabbing a Zodiac ring to the build I guess.

@Sardaukar-2915

well, okay LOD works to

Just to be sure I checked last patches’ top dog build Starpact LoD Bazooka Wizard and I don’t remember any teleport or high mobility item besides Illusory Boots. Your woes about lacking mobility is irrelevant at high level play, and at speedfarm specs you can easily squeeze in either of these items without sacrificing anything noticeable.
Almost entirety of class roster is bound to ultimate transformation (Champion, WotB, Vengeance, Epiphany…) or a momentary buff (Land of the Dead) and you’re complaining about being bound to that while you can ignore that altogether. We all know how terrible Wizard passives are in comparison to each other, so it’s not a big deal either.

@Sardaukar-2915

Not sure if I follow you, but it seems you’re basically saying that if Wizards want mobility they just need to pick Archon and shut up which is basically where we are stuck now.

More or less, because you already have high effective range and don’t have to chase anything. Your woes about mobility only applies to the speedfarm portion of the class and as far as I can tell, none of the classes balanced on terms of speedfarm specs solely.
Anything in active combat should be answered by crowd control or debuffs for sweeping with mass area damage; that’s what your class is. At least the purpose of it.

[Kindran-11838]

@Sardaukar-2915

But Aether Walker I can almost hear your mention? Well first of all AW is usually a massive gimp in our DPS. Look, I don’t mind sacrificing some DPS, but because AW is a weapon we loose a massive amount of DPS.

So does nearly every class out there. Classes have to give up damage to gain speed. They give up a weapon to equip In Geom to have their teleports reset. I prefer Aether Walker over In Geom because you are protected against bad luck.

I keep having to tell people this, but for some reason every one thinks the speed problem with Wizard is a problem with Teleport. The problem isn’t Teleport. The problem is the lack of instant screen clearing abilities. The only thing close to being decent is Frozen Orb or Chantodo Archon.

Other than those 2 builds, Wizard lacks the capability to instantly clear the screen and continue moving. This is the main problem. The solution isn’t too “fix” teleport.

IF blizzard made teleport a 10 charge ability with no ICD and a 1 second cooldown. It will assist with speed, but it won’t allow Wizard to be a speedy clear class like others.

[Kindran-11838]

I’m regards to actual solutions to speed clears.

1. Make Serpent Sparker able to summon up to 5 Hydras, and change the TV set to have Hydras follow the wizard while moving.

2. Add an additional effect to Aether Walker to automatically cast a resource spender when teleporting.

3. Add an effect to Nilfur’s boots to give meteor the Thunder crash ruin. (Thundercrash + shower would be awesome)

4. Buff Manald Heal and Electrocute coefficients for Manald. Add a legendary effect to automatically pulse lightning around the wizard. (Similar to Chantodo)

These would be a start.

[Sardaukar-2915]

@naksiloth-1354

So does Monks when they exhaust their Dash charges out of combat and not having up time at Epiphany. You brought Monks’ Epiphany by quoting another individual and I’m telling you how similar they are actually.

Similar? How is infinite Dash similar to a not infinite teleport? The only thing similar is the range both skills cover.

Lexa mentioned what I forgot and I that Archon has a 120 sec CDR (100 with VYR). You can get that down ofcourse, but you need lots of CDR on your gear which replaces other stats and even then you need a piece of gear (Messerschmidt, Ingeom or Orotz) to get it back really fast.

Even then VYR/Archon basically means when you Archon end that you stand still to channel to get back into Archon. Standing still, not the thing that really helps with the speed thing now is it?

@naksiloth-1354

Demon Hunters, Barbarians, Crusaders, Monks; all bound to their ultimate transformation to deal damage and negate crowd control and you’re complaining about Wizards lacking mobility because you “hate” or “don’t like” Archon.

As outlined in the post I copied a couple of those classes basically have unlimited mobility and I tried to explain that we do NOT.

And if I like Archon is not the point (I’m more tired of it, but that’s beside the point). It should NOT be neccessary to have to change your ENTIRE build to an Archon/Vyr setup because we also need to do some speedruns and STILL fall behind even if we do.

@naksiloth-1354

You even have alternative options to substitute for it via passives.

Passives for speed besides Illusionist? Damn, I’ve been away longer then I thought then if Wizard have new/reworked passives.

@naksiloth-1354

More or less, because you already have high effective range and don’t have to chase anything. Your woes about mobility only applies to the speedfarm portion of the class and as far as I can tell, none of the classes balanced on terms of speedfarm specs solely.

No we do NOT have an high effective range. If you have a Wizard and keep up in a party doing speed runs it’s not that you are fast, they are slow.

And ofcourse they don’t balance for speed, but that doesn’t mean that we don’t see a problem with the Wizards mobilty. Well, you don’t, but a lot of us do.

[clueso-2790]

@Lexa-2365

If Wizard’s Teleport skill had the same mechanic like Necros (with charges and 5 second recharge time) then the Necromancer would still be superior thanks to Teleports horrible pathing that gets stuck on literally everything that isn’t empty space - what a joke. Just copy the damn code if you must. Can’t be that hard.

I don’t play too much Necro and I just tested Blood Rush VS Teleport in a few areas with walls and obstacles like

• Southern Highlands
• Cathedral
• Cave of the Moon Clan
• Caldeum Hideout
• Bastion’s Keep
• Ruins of Covos
• etc

and I did not notice any difference in where Blood Rush’s pathing is better than the one of Teleport.

The Necro also gets stuck on the same things that the Wizard does when using their Movement skills, so can you give me a few examples?

[Kindran-11838]

@clueso-2790

and I did not notice any difference in where Blood Rush’s pathing is better than the one of Teleport.

The Necro also gets stuck on the same things that the Wizard does when using their Movement skills, so can you give me a few examples?

They can’t because they are the same with any potential pathing issues.

[Kindran-11838]

@Sardaukar-2915

No we do NOT have an high effective range. If you have a Wizard and keep up in a party doing speed runs it’s not that you are fast, they are slow .

This isn’t the case. The only time I have trouble keeping up with speed runs as a wizard is when it’s against a super speed build variation for GoD DH or WW Barb on open maps. If it’s a wall/maze map then it’s easy to keep up if all I do is teleport around. This is with non-archon aetherwalker and archon v r builds.

Again, this shows that the problem isn’t teleport. It’s the damage skill mechanics.