BLIZZ did you decrease PRIMAL DROP RATES?

General Discussion
41

Most of Primals that anybody else ever found is either at the quality of yours or very mediocre. Primal items you have equipped are average, yet there are even worse examples out there. For equipping those trash Primals on your character you must be really low on paragon level or clueless. I mean, why would you equip a defensive piece without any vitality, at paragon level 400 even if it’s a Primal? At different phases of accumulating paragon level, players will have different priorities.

This is what I’m trying to convey and generalize. However, the line between your own experience and rest of the community may occur abit more fluish to you than it appears to be. That’s about it. Your luck doesn’t correlate with another player, nor justify you defending them.

42

I never made a specific example, but plenty of slots you don’t want vitality on regardless of paragon.

Because you haven’t gotten anything better? Seeing as that has been my sole argument for going on 10 posts now, I really don’t understand how you still fail to grasp it.

Nor does yours, so that seems like a pointless argument as neither of us have objective statistics to use as a basis.

43

Thread muted

4 Likes
44

By average, out of a bulk of 380-450 Legendaries/Sets, there could be zero to one Primal and around 38-45 Ancient quality item. According to statistics, certain pieces are much likely to get replaced by an Ancient if Primal is rolled badly. Since you encounter Ancients much more often, they have a better chance of rolling highly demanded affix combinations than once in a year type Primal.

Now, it will take a very long time for pieces where they have fixated stats (ie. most Set gloves have ChC%) but eventually you could find a very good rolled Ancient to replace its main stat with a useful affix (AD%, CdR% with crit rating) then augment it at late game.
A decent rolled Ancient is, and always, will be better than a crappy rolled Primal. Because offense slots will usually have crucial stats such as AD%, Elemental%, CdR%, skill damage, which replaces main stat at desired outcomes. And yes, for some slots, a Primal item would be hard to replace because it’s a really hefty stat boost yet, that doesn’t affect the fact that statistics work as intended.

Out of 39 or so Ancients, you supposed to find a decent one, until you spent your options to find a Primal which is actually quite elusive on its own. That doesn’t mean you have to wear the most trashy rolled Primal because it’s a Primal. A regular quality legendary jewelry with desired stats would be arches better than a Primal; same deal apply here.
This isn’t a hard to grasp idea.

45

Did you just assume that out of the ancients you get in the time you get a primal you get multiple of that same item as the primal? The loot pool has over 600 unique items that can drop, and it can be scewed even further from your assumption if you happen to target another slot during that time.

46

Why I can not? If you want to loot 600 Legendary/Set items then stop, you’ll find several duplicates for your class, but that would be a really weak sample size to demonstrate randomization. You find quite a few hundred legendaries from a day’s farming and that number grows each day on consistent gameplay along the Season.
The words, “by average,” declares a very large sample size need to be taken; so I can pretty much assume the same item gonna roll over and over again as the target pool.

Sure, by a very good luck, you can find a very bad Primal; one in 360 samples of the same item instead of expected 400 average or so. That still doesn’t mean it ain’t gonna be replaced soon or any worthy of augmenting it, since it won’t carry you far at pushing or perhaps rifts.
There are several different slots for Legendaries and Sets with too much random affixes (5 random affixes with guaranteed main stat) and those usually can result in a very bad roll. Combination of affixes make or break items’ value. Your loss at any sort of damage output from picking Ancient over a Primal, can be covered by the improved survival and return as better sustain.

Did you just assume statistics are limited to a narrow scope, or any example scrapped?
Primal you found may even be the crap item you don’t need, if you go that way. Why do you assume they would find the Primal they would benefit from at the first place then? They could have find a Primal Eun-jang-do or primal Death Watch Mantle and equip that because it dropped as their first GR70 Primal regarding your thought process.

The question there should be “during what time?”.

47

Because you can’t claim to use statistics while making an assumption that’s not statistically realistic in the slightest.

No, I didn’t. You’re saying that out of an average of 400 drops you get 40 ancients and one primal, which is valid, you however also make the statement that multiple of those 40 will be the same item as the primal when the pool it takes from is 600+, which is not, and absolutely not if you target farm for another slot than the primal is.

It was a statement, not a question, and it was precisely what I intended it to be.

48

With sample size large enough and duration spread out, statistics I claim are realistic. If you find thousands of Legendary/Set items, between those few hundred duplicates of same item; you supposed to see the expected pattern of quality distribution. This is not hard to grasp unless you are wilfully ignorant.
I’m giving you numbers and general statistics over a course that is spread among months; you’re talking about the entire available item pool like it proves anything.

Elaborate how my statement is wrong.
How many legendary items you can farm per day? How many duplicates in that small sample size? Loot weight is 85% class related and 15% off-class related; so you will find duplicates of the same Unique equipped item for your class more often than never.

I honestly didn’t get this part. Don’t go out of the intended scope of context.
I just said since combination makes or breaks the item quality, the Ancient you might have already looted have a better chance of being the top tier item for your build than a Primal that rolls once in a long while.

I don’t expect you to find 400 duplicates of the same item all at once or in a streak, so it needed a question. You sound like you’re confused and lacking judgment or I’m giving you too much credit. Don’t wanna figure out which option is truth either.

49

You farm 30 greater rifts. You spend the 15 000+ blood shards you get on gloves. The primal you get in the last rift is a necklace.

Of the about 400 items you got you skewed the result quite a bit by making about a quarter of them gloves, reducing the likelihood of you getting multiple ancient necks, let alone a specific one in that sample.

Seeing as you have consistently failed to understand a basic sentence since the start, you should to be very careful with your dirt slinging.

Well, no one made that statement, so maybe not pull things from thin air and claim someone did.

That’s not what you said though, and not what we’ve been discussing up to this point. The odds are in your favor, you however specifically said that during the drops needed to garner a primal you would get multiple ancients of that same item.

50

thank you all for your comments and insights, as in the world we each have our own play styles and strategies one does not make the other wrong, just a different approach. Thank you both for giving me a lot of information. And yes i love primals hehe no i don’t keep the useless ones that are missing 2 key stats they get smushed to dust and i keep grinding.

51

I’m not slinging any dirt. You haven’t been reading that post and previous ones carefully to get the context and going out for no reason.

Yes. You would, statistically, a primal don’t land on your lap from the first kill you landed the moment you step out of town.

How? How on earth getting a Primal reduces your chances of getting multiple ancient necklaces? Are you hearing yourself? You shouldn’t be slinging nonsense. If you haven’t found a Primal gloves, then that slot is out of context and finding a Primal doesn’t reduce your chances. If that slot is out of scope then you first ask the question that if that item on the other slot worths equipping or not.
Question from the start is not equipping a bad primal; you are steering it all over the place by the lack of judgment or deliberate nonsense.

Read carefully if you want the score and understand the context. It went over your head.

52

lol

This thread is hilarious.

I would like to point out something thought.

If you were to look at my seasonal DH.

You will notice that I am currently wearing a non-ancient, non-primal helm.

I have had this curse of not being able to get a helm to drop with the right stats ALL season in either ancient or better.

I want one that drops with:
CC
Multi-shot

If it does not have at least ONE of those two stats with decent rolls, its insta-garbage.

So.

After buying nothing but Helms for 10s of thousands of shards, notta. Upgrading helms, notta. Reforging, nadda. Upgrading to Primal, nadda. Nothing. Zip.

I have gotten close, but they would drop with an abysmal roll, like 4.5cc or 10% MS on one of the two slots, making it kinda still useless.

Anyway, luck certainly is a thing in this game. And on that particular item, it has been a nightmare.

I don’t even think it has perfect rolls as a normal legendary set item even, to top it off. I just haven’t found a replacement that had better stats. lol

So having a primal drop that is bad at face value may still be better than what you had before hand. But that doesn’t mean it can’t be replaced with a better Ancient.

Somewhere I have a perfect Ancient that in reality should be a Primal based on the stats. It rolled max stats essentially. But I have no idea where that item ended up.

That’s probably more rare than the Primals. Anyway

Game on.

2 Likes
53

I just read through this thread. (I may have missed a reference to it). The big deal right now -that I did not see mentioned- is that Primal drops, even bad ones right now, can feed the Primordial Ashes stash. With that you can use it to get at least one item upgraded that you could not seem to find.

Also, trying to get the Alter completed.

2 Likes
54

What the hell are you on, really? I never said nor implied that. You gotta do some very fanciful selective reading to come to that conclusion.

If you run Greater Rifts to gather 400 legendaries on average 40 of those will be ancient and one primal. About 100 will be from blood shards and are in most cases spent on a single slot, in my example provided it was gloves while the dropped primal was a neck, so 300 will be from drops.

Of those 300 on average 45 will be for other classes leaving 255 drops out of 400.

Of those 255 items on average 26 will be ancients, 26 items out of a pool for your class that’s measured in the hundreds.

You claim that out of those 26 multiple will be the same item on average, the very same item on average as the one primal you got in that same 400 items.

That’s not statistically likely…

55

There is no guarantees of that. Know what I mean by average; sample size has to be bigger.

No. I claim out thousands of items you loot you will get duplicates. Scope is the targeted item here and nothing else. If you find item-x about 500 times in bulk of 10000 items, there is a chance that you find a primal and several ancients among them. Scope is targeted item-x in that example.
You are going all over the place deliberately or having lack of judgment and reading comprehension. You haven’t been reading; I even been quoting myself how 600 items would be a bad sample size as it is too small. You are steering all over the place and I am puzzled on how to react. Do you wanna get grasp of statistics or just wanna pick theories out of thin air?

What is statistically unlikely is you scoring a primal at every 400th legendary and claim there won’t be duplicates over the course of thosands of items you farm over the course of months. You haven’t been reading, not even what you have wrote.

Question is whether or not would you equip a badly rolled Primal. I claim that a good ancient can and will replace bad primal. You claim gambling for gloves would drop your chances of finding an ancient amulet, which me questioning the legitimacy of that claim. How you got here?
If you keep hitting Greater rifts you always have the chance because you don’t have unlimited bloodshards and have to replenish them. It’s getting hard to follow your thought process.

56

That’s what “on average” means.

No, actually you didn’t, I even asked specifically if that was what you meant and you confirmed.

That was not the specific argument I had an issue with as shown in the quotes provided.

TBH it seems you would have trouble following the direction a river flows.

57

Reread what you quoted. Please. Several times I have said a few hundred item is a very small sample size. That is not confirming your word. Scope is a specific item ofcourse I am talking about ancient and primal variants of the same item over the course of thousands. If the Primal item you found is not the one you want, why are you even insuniating on equipping that? If you haven’t found a Primal for that specific slot then it is out of scope. If you found a Primal, you still have chance to find Ancient variants that could replace it.

Not my fault if you can’t grasp how statistics work. As we clearly talking on different context, I don’t think I ever affirmed your nonsense. You will get ancients before a Primal and after. Your chance ain’t get affected. Just because you get a random Primal amulet doesn’t end loothunt for that slot.

Looking at how you steer the subject I don’t think you would have much success on following a mild conversation of mathematics. You can not even tell what the scope and contextes are, yet deflecting your mistakes on me.
This is awkward but either pay more attention or stop claiming nonsense. Are you testing my patience?

58

Yeah, clearly, but until you do you friggin equip the sub par primal, which was my original friggin point that you have had an issue with the entire argument.

I literally quoted the part you where you did…

My liberal use of “on average” would hint that I do, a term you seem to not understand yourself given your replies so far.

59

Read it again. This is getting awkward. I said it is “unlikely” that you get a guaranteed primal every 400 item or even legendary/set. That is not confirming anything unless you lack of knowledge on basic english language.

In reality there will be deviations on small sample sizes because you can find a primal or ancients that you would not equip, but duplicates of target item would be too small. No, you wouldn’t equip a primal at the risk of getting rid of your 6-piece set bonus or replace your weapon with an unrelated legendary.

It doesn’t. You keep saying that but going out of scope for no reason. Specific item has a name and doesn’t qualify to be in scope if you can’t find a Primal variant for it. Item being a primal doesn’t qualify it getting equipped as it rely on different aspects. I can’t believe I am giving you this much credit.

60

No, I haven’t. Not once. But to hell with it, I would have better luck teaching my fridge to dance a waltz.