Barbarians Unite Pls. Nice People spotted :)

How the hell do you know that WW Rend is OP?!

Based on a guy who cleared a GR140 with over 10500 paragon?

Seriously how blind are you?!

No one in season no matter if he bots or plays the game over 15 hours a day in META groups only has reached more than 6000-6500 paragon.

Lets assume a barb player won’t make it to the META and some random barb player gets up to 3000-4000 paragon in seasons by running random 120-130 GRs in communities or public games only.

Do you honestly expect that he could clear a 130-135 GR solo even with the season theme kill streak bonuses and WW Rend with just 3000-4000 paragon?!

Why do you have to be such a party :poop:er, just because Barbs could suddenly be 2 GR or max 4GRs ahead from other classes

Where were you when chantodo’s vyr was dominating as the best DPS build for TWO season?!

I haven’t seen any post of you how OP that build is and how it’s breaking the balance (of the universe) back than…

Now after years of neglecting barbs they finally got buffed and have a chance to be in the Top 3 best DPS builds in game and you’re saying they’re OP, are an outlier or breaking the balance?


I would love to if devs or game designers buffed new Monk and Crusaders sets over the roof, so a 5000-6000 paragon player could suddenly clear 138-142 GRs with them…

Would you be crying about them being OP too?

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Hey guys and gals. Here is a simple question or two that simply will fix everyone’s problems.

Can ww barb do enough damage for 150 group play? If the answer is no buff then even more.

Can any other class carry a 150 group ? If the answer is yes then you need to buff anyone who can’t.

That’s how you balance the fing game. Not some bs omg barbs can do a gr y. They are so strunk need to nerf them a bit.

Why is no one nerfing wiz adds and their boom head screen builds? Idc if they are paragon 9000 shouldn’t happen end game right ?

You buff a class then you buff everyone else to compensate. That’s how diablo can only be balanced. Not this wow nerf this and that bs. Barbs have always been hurt by the stupid broken mechanics left in the game around their skills. Just because something was broken and good but not working as intended we didn’t get buffs

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Season theme is actually powerfull to compensete lower paragon. And S19 theme (if it will be not nerfed) is even stronger.

EU S18 Wiz no 1 with 5438 paragon - GR143
EU NS Wiz no 1 with 10k+ paragon - GR144
EU S18 Barb no 1 with with only 3950 paragon - GR130
EU NS Barb no 1 with 10k+ paragon - GR133

And on S18 is not final push yet and it will maybe go higher. In S19 with actual state of theme I expect solo max even higher than NS (for all classes).

I expect WW Rend S19 solo 140GR+ with 4000 paragon with curent S19 theme.

I am not advocating Barf nerf. I am not for nerfs. But you overestimate high paragon over season theme…

Even if you’re right than so what?

It’s ok for EU S18 Wiz with 5438 pragon to clear a 143 GR, but a barb with arround 4000+ can’t clear lets say 140-142 GR with S19 theme?

As you we can see from your post max GR clear on EU for barb in S18 was just 130 GR and ONLY 133 GR on NS with 10k+ paragon and I doubt that it was done with WW Rend, yet some players (not saying you too Mlok) can’t stomach the fact that barb might clear a 140-142 GR in S19 out of jealousy, cause Wizard or Necro can no longer do it right? :roll_eyes:

One more thing I’m not in favour of any nerfs even for chantodo’s or the upcoming necro nerf. I wouldn’t mind if they were reverted and instead other Wiz and Necro class sets got buffed along with their supporting legendaries…

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This S18 EU Wiz max clear is biggest problem, because it is not with Chant. Vyr (which will be nerf), but with bazooka…
Same player was rank 1 EU S18 a few days ago with Chant. Vyr (prenerf) with GR140.

If I have to choose only one nerf, than I will choose bazooka.

Barb GR130 S18 is not with WW, but GR133 EU NS is not either. It is only comparison paragons diferents vs power of season theme.

And I have not problem if WW Rend will be not nerf and clear in S19 GR140+. But than I have not see point to nerf Chant. Vyz especialy when bazooka will still unchanged.

You might want to look in the mirror.

The method used here is VERY bad.

You are comparing a previous test to a new test and claiming equality. Using this mentality, you could claim that, because of having an income, low-income african-american families need no help because they make money now compared to when they were slaves.

You use an outlier to determine if something is good or bad. Medical companies have done this for years. Almost always, it results in lawsuits over them releasing a dangerous product.

You are using data with a HUGE skewing towards one part of the test. The first barb buff in a long time, a lot of people are going to play it. This increases the chance of an outlier happening.

You show information from only one part of the current test versus all the numbers done on it. This would be considered a bias and invalid for proving something in the scientific community.

On top of that, someone showing that a SEASON clear is being done with a fraction of the effort needed for NON-SEASON clear indicates a very strong build. Since it takes extreme NON-SEASON paragon (10000+) to match what a SEASON (~5500) paragon can do, it indicates a strong disparity. Have someone who has similar (<1% difference) paragon doing each and their numbers and then you can have something more likely to be believed even though both are extreme examples.

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I consider your analogy inaccurate and offensive.

I will discuss the medical company part first.

I think that you may have a misunderstanding about how drugs (and implanted medical devices) are approved for widespread clinical use. What I say next is a gross over-simplification with some attempt to make it a layman explanation. In particular for investigational new drugs in the United States, this is a FDA-regulated multistep process that considers relative efficacy and risks associated with the investigational medicine versus typically the current standard of care or in combination with current treatment regimens. New drugs are not approved because they work on an outlier individual. Certainly, a drug does not need to work on all patients but can be a subpopulation (e.g Herceptin in HER2-positive breast cancer), based on personalized medicine and molecular characteristics.

If a drug only shows evidence of efficacy in an outlier, that drug would never be FDA-approved. A important concern that comes up sometimes in this process is that during the clinical trial, a pharmaceutical company may change the clinical outcome measure to demonstrate efficacy after the fact or do a post hoc test to define the population where the drug may have efficacy but have neglected Bonferroni considerations.

In general, lack of efficacy is not what gets pharmaceutical or medical device companies sued. The primary reason relates to adverse events. All medications are associated with risk including simple over the counter medications such as aspirin. Implantable medical devices can fail and drugs can have severe side effects, causing harm and/or death. During clinical trials, there are mechanisms in place to report adverse events and the clinical trial lead is required to report all adverse events. Moreover, pharmaceutical companies are supposed to follow their drugs after FDA-approval to see if in a larger population adverse events are occurring. As you can imagine, this does create a potential conflict-of-interest as the adverse event reporters may have a financial stake in the success of the trial. Safeguards are in place to prevent this misconduct, but no system is perfect. For example, all doctors can report adverse events that they think are caused by a particular medicine. So why are pharmaceutical companies being sued? Typically, it relates to underreporting adverse events or when adverse events are reported that they do not act quickly enough to determine if their drug is causative. As an epidemiologist will tell you, it sometimes can be rather difficult to show causality in human population given out genetic and environmental heterogeneity.

You quoted point #1. You did not quote point #2 in that post (#91) in your linked thread. I explained in more detail later in that thread about interpretations. My analysis does not rely on an outlier for its conclusions. In the PTR, there is 3X the number of players who cleared a GR126 with barbs than the numbers of players who did so in the current non-season era using demon hunters. The top DH, monk, and crusader, in non-season in the America/EU/Asia regions have not cleared a GR140, but a barb within 24 hours of the PTR going live did.

If you read this thread thoroughly, you will realize that I strongly disagree with the opinions of several poster. However, I think it is fair to say that there is an emerging majority who feel for comparing relative power, it is best to compare classes using non-season/era numbers. Comparing a seasonal clear to non-season has a confounder of the seasonal buff. Also, we agree that you can not compare clears using only PTR numbers, due to bias in the number of players testing each class.

  1. Completely changing the primary endpoint of a trial while the trial is ongoing is very rare (at least in oncology, since you mentioned trastuzumab) and something that will forever follow the trial as a major flaw. One of the most common causes is poor accrual so they might opt for more convenient time-to-event endpoints such as PFS instead of OS.

  2. Bonferroni correction is one of the many ways to adjust for multiple testing but even if you do and there is positive interaction between treatment arm and a subgroup, this will definitely not lead to regulatory approval: prospective validation is required.

Also, none of this has anything to do with D3 and the fact that you misuse the limited, full of confounders data stemming from a PTR in a game full of randomness. Predicting anything in D3 is an exercise in futility and one of the reasons why I so much miss D2. It’s rare that D3 gets me excited and Barb in S19 has done that. But no. You have to cry day and night for nerfs.

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Correct. As I stated, it was a gross over-simplification. Although accrual can be a problem, I think in cases of misconduct, it has been more related to changing clinical outcome measures or issues related to adverse event reporting/analysis. Defining subgroups after the fact has been an issue (and multiple hypothesis testing) that has unfortunately led to drugs coming on the market that have no efficacy. I suspect that you know all about this by your use of abbreviations and vice versa. :smile:

This has nothing to do with diablo, but I just wanted to correct a misperception as s/he brought up medical companies as well as address his diablo 3 points.

P.S. I recommend that the magnitude of the barb buff be less in patch 2.6.7 that what it was in the PTR/Public Test Realm.

You can try and derail this Topic all you want, you are still wrong, maybe now the people in charge of these Forums will finally see what you are and remove a malignant Troll from these Forums.
Well one can only hope.

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I see that old trolls of any Barb buffs are still around huh? DemonBurgers and corporation inc?

Fellas, this will never change, there are a-holes in this game that simply troll just to troll and do so because they know Barbs will react. Barbs were neglected for years, we begged for small buffs over and over, but we were getting sh!t like Saffron Wraps and meaningless number increases while the root of the problem was always itemization and poor design of some of the interactions.

Do not let trolls ruin it. Remember, winds will change and skies will fall when the barbs unite.

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@S4v4G3,

I only made 2 of my ~2,000 posts in the old barb forum. I have never asked for a nerf to barbs in the old forum. I think instead of name-calling, can we just accept that we have a difference in opinion? For this thread, I did not respond at all until post #21 after reading post #20 where my name was invoked.

Darn, I still only have one heart to give when you deserve a 100.
:heart:X 100 That will have to do. :grinning:

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He’s like Bloody Mary, only when you invoke his name once he shows up with charts and starts asking what, hypothetically, even is a Greater Rift?

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My God, it never ends. It’s like an avalanche of sh!t, it just goes on and on and on. Being a pain in the a$$ must feel great, because they are not stopping!

Seriously, how far you guys want to go to keep trolling? Let’s talk seriously now, no more trolling. How many of you are really concerned about this game to the point of wasting your time advocating for changes that won’t impact your direct gameplay?

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You followed me around in posts for two days and I never mentioned your name once in those posts
.

Except you don’t accept that people have a different opinion than yourself, and use biased data to try and pass your opinion off as fact.

Which is it, unproven conjecture or barb can definitely clear 140? One guy did it,it’s not ‘definite’ because that was one guy, not the entirety of the PTR leader board testing WoTW .There is a difference between an individual playing a given class and the class itself, via paragon, augments, leg gem levels, and last but not least the quality of the rift that got opened for said clear. I don’t expect to see paragon 2k players in NS clearing 140 with WW so I’m going to disagree with your supposition that WoTW can clear 140 definitively.

Glad others are picking up on this, well said.

@Savage good to see you in forum bro! Hope all’s well!

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Hey there brother! Yeah everything in order, not too much time for gaming overall but I play that “other game that cannot be named” when I can, I even downgraded to Standard because I cannot commit time for leagues and new char development. I’m working full time and going to 2 different colleges at the same time trying to get some state licenses and certifications so yeah, pretty busy weekdays when you throw 2 small boys and wife on top of all that lol :slight_smile:

I’m surprised that so many trolls are still here trying to impose their own speculations as facts. Some stuff never changes. You remember DemonBurger and his “he was ploughing thru 124’s”? That is exactly what I see now, just in different words.

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I might suggest that you and other’s stop invoking my name. I bet if people stop the name-calling and mischaracterizing my posts, then my post frequency would be significantly diminished on this topic. I would have no need to respond/clarify my position. You may not like the charts but they do show in a simplified manner that data that is online/in game.

You can be an instrument of change for how we treat each other on the forum. At the end of the day whether a class gets a buff/nerf is small potatoes in a video game in relation to how we treat each other.

I hope that for myself I do not claim to be an instrument for meaningful change based on whether my favorite class was buffed or not.

I do not try to silence critics in America where free speech is valued (although free speech does not apply in this case as it is a company’s forum). Being an American means that you let other present heir viewpoint even if you would spend a lifetime advocating against said position.

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So, I already am. So is Rage.

So is the entire Barb community who contributed to the proposal, publicized it, and got buffs secured.

But not you, mah dude.

Lay your weary charts to rest and skedaddle.

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Hey bud glad to see you are doing well! Hopefully you come back when D4 gets here. Also that guy is still around ploughing things. :joy:

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