I can put something together this weekend for you
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Nah, shockwave actually only added about 5 tiers to top end pushes.
Meanwhile, Altar will add 3-4 tiers just based on everything except the potion powers. How many extra tiers we get beyond that will depend on how crazy those powers are when the patch actually goes live, but I’d be surprised if we get less than 5 tiers total- it seems more likely that we’ll be closer to +10.
Looks like 3000% make more sense. As far as I know, Very few ppl are playing 90. No position in Group play, not the best build for 120 solo…
Savages is currently the top of NA Barb ptr so I think it’s fine for damage at the moment. I think it needs a mechanic to increase damage variance rather than a straight buff to the set.
This is what I really liked about Raekor, the 4pc is such an interesting mechanic that increases the top end while requiring skilled use to maximize value. Rend makes use of density to push higher. MotE as well.
Currently H90 uses Stricken to achieve that higher top end, but that obviously best applies to solo kills and doesn’t really benefit farming or speeds. Best I have at the moment would be to increase Bastion stacks to 15 (or higher). This notably increases the number of frenzy hits, which should in theory benefit density.
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At 2500%, H90 would become the 2nd best Barb set, clearly superior to Rend and the HotAs for basically everything that involves GRs (Rend would still probably be better for T16 Bounties + Keys). To actually catch Raekor for solo push, it would need 87% more damage, which would mean about 3750% total. So yeah, around 3000% would probably make H90 a better build for speeds, and Raekor a better build for pushing.
Well, if variance is what you’re after, then the easiest way to do that is to just jack up the bonus damage to frozen, feared, and stunned enemies on the 2-piece.
Of course, that’ll operate in kind of the opposite way as the variance for Raekor. In that build, we are relatively stronger for push than for speeds, because in push, the mobs take longer to kill, and also do more damage, meaning they push our life down to the Relentless trigger point, and then we sit there, dealing 2-2.5x our normal damage. In speeds with Raekor, you kill everything so quickly that it either doesn’t have much time to damage you, or you end up healing from Life per Kill, or just from globes when you blow up an elite pack.
With Frenzy, you’re relatively stronger in speeds, because you can kill stuff within the time that it’s frozen/feared/stunned. In push, after about 10 seconds have passed, overall uptime on your hard CCs will fall to somewhere between 20% and 30%. That means that your actual damage bonus is whatever the bonus is, times .2 or .3.
So if they increased that number from +100% to +200%, then rather than getting a 20-30% damage increase in push, it would be 40-60% (which is a net increase of 23% extra damage). Maybe this would be the most interesting route to take, rather than a further flat increase.
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I hadn’t considered increasing the 2pc damage bonus. Let’s hope it’s something the devs take a look at.
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I’ll mention this idea in the Frenzy thread over on PTR feedback.
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That would buff IK also as the 2 piece savages is one of the better hota builds
Good point. That’s another positive for the idea, since a) IK HotA + H90 2-piece is a little weaker than using CoE, anyway, and b) IK HotA is a bit weaker than LoD HotA, so it too could use the extra bump.
did a 135 on literally the worst map I could find (multiple keep depths) and was smooth sailing. The ‘not having to really fish thing’ is a pretty nice feature.
Yeah, below a really top-level push, Frenzy is not very map-dependent, at all. That’s because making big pulls is pretty close to pointless.
So yeah, at GR 135 for you or me:
- Don’t care about mob types
- Don’t care what map it is
- Single target RG preferred, but only a little, because you’ll kill adds quite fast anyway.
That’s most of the fishing, thrown out the window!
was personally hoping they would work perma wrath somewhere into the set , kind of sucks been a melee class and been frozen and jailed without any way of obtaining perma wrath
I’m glad that not all our builds have perma-WOTB. A few good CC reduction rolls on gear makes it into not such a big problem, and having to dodge a few Frozen explosions adds interest to this build. If this build really was just played by standing in 1 place, tanking everything, and holding down the Frenzy button, I think I’d find it pretty dull. Having to stay aware of things that are dangerous to you spices it up.
I do wish they’d fix Jailer bug though. CC resist doesn’t work on that, nor does activating WOTB, or anything else…
At first I thought the lack of WOTB was a deal-breaker for me but It’s not the worst with some crowd control defense and a lot of cooldown. I just did a 130 on the live S27 server to compare (using guardians) and you can tell it packs a bigger punch.
It’s starting to grow on me 
as usual when i think about it your absolutely right , the voice of reasoning , and one of the main reasons you will be a big miss around these parts 
, on a sidenote i did manage to 1 key a 146 on ptr without any cc immunity on gear , and in the meantime just dropped a primal helm with 40% cc secondary , so lets see how that plays out when patch goes live , i havent really played around with the leap and no bom setup as of yet , but will give that set up a go in new era reset and give a big push for the 150
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Congrats on that 146 MM- 1 key holy cow!
I bet you’ll knock down 150 not long after the parch goes live. Might be a little learning curve to that crazy no BoM setup, but I’m sure you’ll figure it out.
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yeah i logged into ptr just to get a feel for the power difference , however it was a grotesque forest with condi , speed but no pylon for boss , got vesaillus and took him down in around 45 to 50 seconds which which was a big surprise , but looking forward to new era reset ,i also havent really played mote with any signifigance but have a nice build setup ready to go in new era , so may need to pick your brains around the mote playstyle etc before you ride off
How is the 2 piece double damge bonus calculated? What power level is it comparable to?
Anytime man, if you have questions, I have suggestions!
If a mob is Feared, Frozen, or Stunned, then you (or any Barb wearing 2 pieces of H90) get a 2x (+100%) multiplier against them.
i.e., if you would normally hit them for 100 damage, you hit them for 200 damage if they’re under the effect of one of those 3 hard CCs.
You can get most of that value in speeds, because mobs generally die before they have a chance to build up much CC resist. But in pushing, mobs last a long time against Frenzy, so they all go through many cycles of CC resist build up and decay. The net result is that you only get ~25% of that bonus, or a ~+25% damage buff.
So, in terms of how many tiers that is worth, it is worth probably around 4 tiers for speeds, and maybe 1.5 tiers for pushing.
cool thanks. was trying it with immortal kings as a fun alternative. Its really good with killing the trash. maybe they could just remove the CC part of the bonus and make it a 100% of the time thing. that could make H90 a little easier to gear for.