With season 25 and likely a clean leaderboard for non season coming, it will become very clear what buffs are needed for the future. I think barbs (wwrend) will have the lowest performing top build in the game after we see a good bit a fishing and the leaders start to
fill in the top 10 to 50 clears. Being middle of the pack in my mind is ok but to be multiple levels behind #1(monk) and then fall to last because WD and DH got amazing changes will
open some eyes just how far back barbs are now. Blizzard tends to give the low performers the most attention so this may be our time.
5 Likes
I couldn’t agree more… and my vote would go to Frenzy!
Yeah, maybe. To play devil’s advocate, I think rend is also the highest performing build that isn’t going to ever get nerfed.
I’m hoping for S26 having reworked raekor.
There is zero chance is gets nerfed. Lamentation should have stayed at 200%. My only reservation on other builds is the true potential of current nerco and sader clears. Most top clears of the leaderboards are from prenerf versions. This causes those players to not even attempt pushes because they can’t come close to those clears. The only way we will know is with a fresh board.
4 Likes
Yeah, that’s what I was trying to say. If it were any stronger, there might be some doubt. I’d rather have a permanent low S-tier build than a two season high S-tier that gets nerfed to A-tier.
It’s also a good point about the necro and sader. There’s some really strong builds that aren’t likely to get nerfed. Thorns bomb and Rend are good examples, and these are probably the better references for balance instead of Innas, etc.
What we need is a two season S+ tier build like a reworked reakors. 
I haven’t been following the changes to WD and Necro very closely, so I can’t speak to how powerful those builds are going to be, though my gut reaction is that neither one will be as strong as Rend.
The new FB wiz will be weaker than Rend, as will every other Wiz build.
Monk will obviously still be stronger.
New Marauder DH looks like it will be very close in power to Rend.
Crusader is tough, since like Chris said the leaderboard hasn’t been reset lately. My general feeling is that both Bombardment and post-nerf AoV will be a hair stronger than Rend.
So, I think we’ll be well behind Monk, a little behind Crusader, tied with DH, and ahead of all 3 Intelligence classes.
I feel like Rend is in a pretty good spot, tbh! It finally got some love and it definitely has strong ramp. (Though my wrist would love it more if Ambo’s rend could proc AD)
I think if Raekor, MOTE, and Frenzy got another looking into to get bumped up to Rend’s level it would give us good alternative options and more variety in the boards. Quite honestly, S24 at least early on, was super fun to see some sprinkling in of other builds than rend. If I’m honest, I’d love to see GoG’s belt work with both SS and Ancient Spear - BT. A buff to 300th and SKular’s to accompany this would give another good alternative to SS, while also allowing us to have something more scarier than Furnace to equip in the cube for LQ builds.
Raekor, I’ve never really been able to think of something I truly wanted. But honestly, I dislike the idea of Raekor being a burstier version of IK HOTA. Why can’t we incorporate Charging into mobs as a good reliable source of damage and maybe actually give us something to buff revenge? I’ve always wanted an excuse for that move to deal some epic damage. Charging, getting hit and proccing revenge to truck in AoE situations feels as chaotic as I can think of with running all over the place like a freight train. Possibilities?
Frenzy isn’t my exact cup of tea. But this build already has scary stacking mechanics for stricken. I feel like most of the time this build just suffers from AoE and Damage reduc.
My 2c…
Raekor needs a total rework like WD spiderlingscreepythings did. Do I love Raekors but hey a new worked set could be cool.
Put Lut socks in Mote set pleeeeeease. Make a new Lut Sock bonus. To buff Mote and SS builds.
Buff Fjord cutter like Remorseless got.
Yay
2 Likes
Crusaders will outperform rend. Valor with perma champion without spending every slot in cooldown. Basically you get the zodiac version with free COE.
A few comments from Eu (if you wonder why Im posting here, Eu forums don’t have any feedback at all).
WW Rend - is mostly in a good shape. It is a strong build, which can do both speeds and push. It doesn’t function well as a group Dpser, mostly due to Area damage lagging out in group play. I would prefer if Area damage would be removed from the game as a concept. I know Area damage won’t be removed but one can dream.
Raekor - this needs a full re-work. Wall charging is not fun as a mechanic. It also lacks in damage.
Immortal kings HoTA - easy mechanics, but it lacks damage to really compete.
Leagacy of Dreams HoTA - lacks damage.
Frenzy - this build seems weak when pushing high. Both a damage and toughness boost would be required to compete. It lacks survivability outside the Wrath of beserker up time.
Might of the earth (LeapQuake) - this build has a fun mechanic, but it lacks damage to really compete. It doesnt really function well as speed, so why shouldn’t have more damage so it at least functions as a push build?
Might of the earth (Sesmic slam) - this needs uncapping of the bracers so the Sesmic slam damage will hit all in the Cone of effect. Also it needs more damage.
My thoughts 
3 Likes
bombardment can still clear 150 and AoV got nerfed by 4GRs. a little bit more than a hair ahead of rend
Well Rend is 150 viable at 10k. Maybe even slightly lower. Does sader have a build stronger then that?
bombardment is viable to do 150 at 7-8k
Well, the lowest paragon Rend 150 we’ve seen was in the 8k paragon range (with a bit of light cheating). Even if we’re only looking at possibly more legit clears, at 10k paragon, you only gain 1 GR of damage going from 8k to 10k paragon (going from around 50k str to around 60k, a 20% gain).
A 1 GR lead is a pretty slim lead.
4 Likes
A6I2 is like 1GR ahead of WW/Rend. I thought A6I2 was on the chopping block because a skilled 5700p player took down a GR147.
Rollercoaster builds like Inna’s/FB, GoD6, AoV, Bone Spear are bad for the game.
When you farms mats, spend augments, play hundreds hours in solo and groups, you really don’t want the build to end up in the too weak to pull out of armory category. The goal is to accumulate builds that you can return to whenever you’re in the mood.
Hopefully Barbs get a round of new and exciting builds as good as WW/Rend so you have options.
5 Likes
depends. if it’s from 100 to 101 I agree it’s nothing, but from 149 to 150 is huge
Well, no.
Mobs have the same % gain of life between GR 100 and 101 as they do between 149 and 150. Currently, due to years of power creep, we would never really talk about two builds, where one had a real max clear of 100, and another a real max clear of 101, and how the second build has “a 1 GR lead”.
For one thing, you’d have to dig pretty deep in the dumpster to actually find a build that weak, and builds that weak don’t really get thoroughly evaluated, so who knows what their real max clear is. Or, if we’re talking about some noob player who just started playing the game, and managed to clear 101 with Bombardment and 100 with Rend, that obviously doesn’t mean anything at all.
Anyway, back in Era 5, the max clear worldwide was 102. And at that time a 1 GR lead (of 102 vs 101, or 101 vs 100, or whatever) was just as significant as a 1 GR lead between 149 and 150 is today.
Yes!
2 Likes
Bone spear is just bad. It shouldn’t even be in that sentence. lol.
Well, I mean, pre-nerf Bone Spear did 150 with 5.7k paragon in less than 12 minutes. At 10k paragon, it could 100% for sure have done GR 155 at 10k paragon, if such a level existed. The nerf it got hit with was -8 tiers, that math is pretty clear on that one. So that would be 147 @ 10k now, which is considerably better than GoD DH (142 top clear @10k, 146 top clear worldwide, @13k).
So, Bone Spear is better than GoD DH, and probably about even with the new nerfed Firebird as well as AoV. Did all of those builds get nerfed too much? Yes. But the nerf to BS was no worse in terms of final results than any of those others.
2 Likes