This + the chantodo nerf will cause the wizard class drop some GR levels, and make overall all other classes being not that bad in terms of power.
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The Barbs have been neglected in terms of scaling in GR’s for nearly two years. I am a ‘what’s good for one is good for all’ person. So leaving the Barbs alone for a season while nerfing Bazooka and Starpact, will tell the real tale.
The only way to do that, is to put the 200% BACK. 
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I see where you’re coming from, and while I think your heart is in the right place, I want you to consider a different perspective.
Nerfs take away from players. They can be carefully applied if something is broken, sure, but in many cases, they just end up making something feel less powerful and, more importantly, less fun. If something is breaking the game or creating an otherwise untenable play environment for others, well, it should be nerfed.
Chantodo’s never did either of those things. Yes, it elevated Wizards to the best DPS class (which is fine), and yes, it radically changed the meta (which is fine). But did it break the game? No. Did it make playing Barb, Monk, WD, or Crusader untenable? No, no, and no.
All it did was make other classes feel significantly less powerful than Wizards. It seemed like Wizards had the cooler, more interesting, more sophisticated, more fun build. And you know what?
They did.
So, rather than nerf Chantodo’s, what should have happened–and what can happen every Season as Blizzard rolls out patches with updated items and new sets–is that other classes should have been brought up to the level (or very close) of Chantodo’s. In other words, everyone else should have been buffed.
Naturally, since Barbs and Monks were by far the weakest classes, they should have received the largest buffs. That would help make up for the fact that they’ve always been the weakest classes, and that their items are horrifically out of date.
The buff to Rend puts us on par or very close to Chantodo’s, and that’s why we don’t want it nerfed at all. In fact, we want to see our other builds–and all the other builds for all the other classes–brought up to par as well.
With regards to powercreep, you have to understand that it’s a fundamental part of D3. All damage output is based on weapon damage and multipliers–that’s it. And the only game environment where a player is evaluated on the efficiency and potential of his build to capitalize on that damage output is through Greater Rifts.
Greater Rifts = end-game content, period.
And since GRs scale in difficulty on a timer, the only way to ever get a better rank or time is through becoming more powerful, and since gear stats and multipliers cap out and main stat doesn’t cap out, the only way to offer any incentive to players who don’t endlessly grind Paragon is to increase the static power of items.
Powercreep is the cornerstone of D3. You may not like it, but that’s how it goes, because the only end-game thrill is in beating your previous best in a GR. That’s the only challenge, so to speak, and that’s the true end-game content in the game. Powercreep isn’t the problem. It’s the game.
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Honestly, I think everyone needs to calm down and wait for an official announcement, what is coming out of blizzcon in pictures are from the console version, and it could be something simple, like that belt was overlooked when programming the console versions (hey, nothing wrong with trying to think positive).
If it does turn out to be a nerf, oh well it’s still a hell of an improvement and the WW build will still be the most powerful Barb build and leave most of the other classes in the dust, not bad for not having to do anything but hold down the mouse button and spin around the map the entire time.
For the record I’m for not nerfing any class, to include wizards chantodo and necros thorns build (even tho, holy crap that’s a boring way to play), but at the end of the day this is still a HUGE upgrade from what a WW barb can currently do, so… yeah, if it happens, sucks, but is what it is… and everyone needs to stop comparing the top GR clears from the 0.001% of the population as a gauge for balance, that’s beyond stupid and people from all classes are guilty of it.
But hey, I’m just excited for D4
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That isn’t true.
Losing the Lamentation multiplier is a 7 GR loss, minimum. It dumps Barbs back into the 130-135 range, which is 2 tiers over our previous class best. That is still behind the non-Season best of every other class except Monk, most of which are 140+.
Not trying to bite your head off, and I appreciate the optimism, but too many folks don’t really understand what this nerf means to the build.
As a Barb expert, I can tell you with total certainty that this nerf will nuke the build into obsoletion, day 1.
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I don’t agree with it’s original inception of 200%
I agree to at least 100% mod.
You have my support, I mean especially since I’m rolling barb next season regardless 
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Now in saying this, we’re sure the new Hota and SS is below 135? Like I said it makes more sense for those builds to be stronger solo than WW/Rend.
You beat me to it! You probably said it a bit nicer than I was going to 
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I’m well aware that d3 has a lot of core problems that probably will never be solved, powercreep created a massive difference between some classes, sadly barb and monks ended in the lowest part of the table because they were not buffed enough.
The thing that some people don’t get is that even if they buff barbarian and monk at the level of wizard, then crusader dh and wd will say that they are in a bad spot and deserve buffs, and in the process of buffs a class will end in the bad spot that barbarians are atm, so the cycle will never ends.
Some classes are overperforming atm, so they deserve nerfs, if they nerf the classes that are broken atm, the process of buffing barb or monks will be easier to do.
Also this guy gasnick is not a real barb supporter, he said in some topics that he did not care about nerfs as long as they don’t touch the build he plays that is UE6 multishot.
He is mad with me and says i’m trolling him because i said that squirt necklace seriously cripples the barbarian class, because we barbarian players know that we can’t use that amulet in efficient ways, so keeping that amulet at 100% free damage makes barbarian about 6 levels weaker than any build that can actually use it.
I have been supporting the barbarian buff idea since day 1, and sadly i see everyone talking about rend nerf, but seems like no one cares about SLAM and hota builds, i’m under the idea that SLAM and hota builds will still not be in a decent spot because almost no one is talking about it, and i think that the buffs we got in these items will probably not make slam and hota being in the meta neither.
TLDR a lot of things were the factors that barbarian class was in a bad spot : powercreep (not getting the buffs at the same ratio than any other classes), squirt necklace (most barbarian builds can’t use the amulet) which makes most of our builds about 6 weaker GR levels. And the lack of nerfs of some classes that atm are way to strong. Barbarian is not only WW/Rend
I really don’t want to debate, just think we need to wait for something official before freaking out. My second part was that we just can’t compare season/non-season clears, and shouldn’t be comparing the top players clears, that’s a ridiculous and terrible way to advocate for or manage balance, yet it’s all I’ve been seeing all PTR. Again, I’m not for any nerf, regardless of class unless GR 150 solo is suddenly doable with minimal investment.
The vast majority of players (99%+) won’t ever see GR 130+ (regardless of class) until blizz says screws it and stops moving the goal post, so lets just please stop comparing the tops clears of professional players who fished for the perfect map, with the perfect mob density with pylons in perfect places… only thing that will come from it is more nerfs.
I get a lot of what you are saying in that post. Here’s kinda the deal though: WW/rend is the build they decided to buff the most and was the one that was going to get us close to being on par with some of the other higher dps classes. In a perfect world all barb builds being buffed to that level would be awesome.
It would be the same thing if they buffed hota or SS to that level and then took it away. I think it’s more about WW/rend being the chosen one over the others. We needed something to catch up with the other classes. I don’t care so much which build is chosen, well that’s not true, I’m not a big fan of charge or SS builds…but any of the others 
Point is this was a build that was buffed to be on par and now we still don’t have anything on par. The SS and hota builds did get buffed and no one pushed them as much as WW/rend, so I’m optimistic they will be pretty decent but they will still lag behind the top clearing builds. It is unlikely that hota or SS builds would be used in off meta speeds, there are just much better options for single target and trash clearing. WW/rend, if the buff stayed, would be a viable option for possibly meta and definitely off meta speeds.
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WW/rend, if the buff stayed, would be a viable option for possibly meta and definitely off meta speeds.
Just in case, i never said anything about nerf WW/rend, in fact i thought the nerf was way to much.
It really is shocking that they would nerf this. Barb has been reduced to a support class for years. How does that sit well with Blizzard? It doesn’t even make sense thematically. Now that WW Rend had a chance of being extremely powerful, they nerf it? Man Blizzard really seems out of touch with things. So what if its op for a season or two… that didn’t make them instantly nerf Vyrs, hell they let that be broken for two full seasons.
Lets see if they really are listening and revert this nerf. I doubt it.
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Right.
And it shouldn’t end. Ever. Until all classes are more or less in the same ballpark and we have more options in meta and off-meta groups. It’s that simple.
Powercreep is, again, NOT A PROBLEM.
It is a core part of D3 due to the foundational game mechanics. You cannot prevent it or curb it given the way D3 was built.
If the builds that can be pushed by the top 1% are buffed, the other 99% will be stronger. That’s why we look to top clears as some kind of barometer–not the end all, be all, but they do represent something significant, even if they’ve been taken wildly out of context this PTR.
Yes, he is.
He’s done some outstanding work in helping to correct misinformation, battle trolls, and put out quality info. He’s earned his spot in our community through his contributions.
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As DH player, Barbs have my support.
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Revert the change. I support Barbarian community.
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As a “playing all the classes on/off” player, I support the Barb community and also want to see the nerf reversed!
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We have been suggesting over years, with not a single answer at all… i personally don’t care if this nerf gets removed again.
It would simply be another perfect example how much we are left alone here. I don’t mean CM work alone, but developers can answer too.
There are skills and even runes that are underperforming like 30+ levels below the current 135** standard, so, does Rend matter at this point?
At least barbs were able to farm XP/gems better than WD/DH/Sader for years.
Diablo 3 Forums (OLD FORUM)
Even if this thread wasn’t finished and edited with all classes… this was the perfect example that nothing we suggested the last years reached any PTR.
Shame on you Blizzard for letting this potentially beautiful game die due to unbalance.
To wait months/years to see changes to different classes really hurts the most… implementing useless sets to the game when the game itself wasn’t even balanced at this point…just wow!
I do upvote this thread, for obvious reasons, but this is just a single thread among hundreds…
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me as a monk player shout for barb buffs here.
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I’m pretty sure the barb community didn’t say anything about a Wizard. We play barbs. I couldn’t tell you anything about what wizards do or what was nerfed exactly. I don’t care. I don’t play them and other people playing them affects me in no way, shape or form. Have a nice day.