Goodness. Diablo forums are too toxic. Chantodo was fine if they were going to buff others. If not, it needed a nerf. The discrepancies are too large to ignore. Granted, they did it poorly. Should have been a scalar nerf.
Rend nerf seems inappropriate.
I wish I knew their logic when setting these scalars. I bet one could sit down with a spreadsheet, a coffee, and a player from each class and have a fairly balanced game with multiple S/A tier builds by the time the coffee was gone. 
If the balance point they are aiming for is 135-140, it was too strong and needed a nerf, if the balance point is higher, I agree with you, they should have left it and continued to work on buffs for other classes and builds.
Revert the nerf and I’ll gladly and proudly play the Barbarian every day for the entire duration of Season 19! If not I’m going to play the Demon Hunter to ‘fast clear’ my season objectives and only play Season 19 for a week or two, and then back to Heroes of the Storm and Diablo 2.
Your move, Diablo 3 Devs. Do the right thing!
As a DH main I would love to try another class for season 19. I approve this message revert the rend nerf!
Too toxic?
I haven’t seen a more civilized discussion in any other game forums. I’m still surprised how mature this community is at handling things.
Also please don’t revert the buff, as a play whichever is the strongest player I really want to play Barb for a change.
You should check out Prokahn’s non-season era 11greater rift efficiency. His calculation accounts for paragon.
I love this study from Prokahn, one thing we have noted with it is that it is not able to factor in players choice on playing a specific class. The biggest example of this is that DH is the most popular class outside of Wizard, thus more people push with DH, increasing the mean.
Monk and Barb are weaker, and a lot of people pass on pushing with them.
I think what we need is a study that removes the paragon factor, but also removes the clear drop off in talented players pushing with a specific class.
I think what we need is a study that removes the paragon factor, but also removes the clear drop off in talented players pushing with a specific class.
You can remove the paragon related thing (at least in terms of damage) doing math (you just simulate a player with the mainstat equivalent to let’s say 2k then you simulate 4k … 7k and 10k) then you can actually get a better picture (after +5k paragon the diminishing returns is insane, so it’s not like the difference between a 5k paragon and a 10k one is that big, probably is just a couple of GR).
Player skill is not a thing you can calc with math and should not be considered in balance, mostly because if you base buffs or nerfs on player skill you can destroy the balance pretty easy (overbuffing things that don’t need it, or nerfing builds that don’t need it).
I concur. Wizards and demon hunters GR efficiency is inflated while “weak” classes are underestimated. The interesting thing (besides the argument of gimmicky mechanics for top clears that is not applicable for the top 1000 collectively) is the relative differences.
For example at low GRs, the “worst” class is necromancers. The necromancer line is atypical. The top end skew is caused by their thorns build that is being nerfed.
This is exactly what S19 game designers want to hear, that you can change the seasonal game enough so that you attract players to another class they usually didn’t play. D3 needs diversity. I play multiple classes each season, just to find out which is the most enjoyable pushing and farming variations. Good post.
I’m all about all class can do GR150 solo so I don’t approve the current buff of barb, not at all.
I demand more buff, across all classes.
You might not be able to factor player skill, but when you see a GR90 for instance as the 1000th clear, but the top is GR125, we are starting to get into a territory where imo, players just do not play that class as much, likely due to overall power.
I still think the Necro is going to be doing 125 or so in season minimum yet just based on the power of the CDR based corpse lancer, but they are nowhere near as powerful as the broken thornmancer that is for sure.
Which fixes none of the issues that keep barb where they are. Which makes this idea laughable at best, because you are suggesting a Nerf to make idiots feel better.
I stress idiots because anyone with half a brain will realise that their class and build didn’t receive any meaningful change; only that others lost potential.
Suggestions like this cater to the scum of the gaming community.
i can live w/o playing D3… can you?
Which fixes none of the issues that keep barb where they are.
Barbarians can’t use squirt necklace efficiently, which means about -6 GR levels of damage (consider that the rend nerf is 7 levels of damage).
Basically nerfing squirt necklace reduces the power between barb and the classes that use squirt necklace.
This game is all about GR levels, and barbarians are asking for buffs because they lack the power that other classes have.
You don’t have to be a genius to know that if an item doubles your damage can be used in all clases but no barb that item is problematic and needs a nerf (because this is unfair for barbs and overall for most melee builds).
Which was made up by Lamentation. You realize that power parity can be achieved with different affixes in different slots instead of being homogenized?
No guess not.
Without addressing why those classes are weaker; here’s a hint there is more going on than squirts in the ‘why.’
Yep, because of nerfs.
No it isn’t; classes using different items is actually a good thing for diversity. Not all classes use Focus/Restraint as well as CR/TP, but does that make one ‘worse’ than the other? No.
You’re very limited in critical thought aren’t you?
Yep, because of nerfs.
You clearly don’t understand why barbarian ended in this bad spot. was not because of nerfs, most barbarian big nerfs were done in vanilla era, then barbarian got some decent buffs and was not in a bad spot in the early seasons, but then the powercreep started and every single class was buffed to the skies, barbarian was just never buffed to the same ratio + that thing that old devs said about “avoid doing nerfs” caused this barb clownfiesta.
No it isn’t; classes using different items is actually a good thing for diversity. Not all classes use Focus/Restraint as well as CR/TP, but does that make one ‘worse’ than the other? No.
Are you aware that squirt necklace enables pretty strong combos like F/R + squirt. squirt + COE + Soj. squirt + COE + RORG, etc…
You’re very limited in critical thought aren’t you?
Are you talking about critical thought after say something like this in the last post ?
because you are suggesting a Nerf to make idiots feel better.
Suggestions like this cater to the scum of the gaming community.
Actually the era analysis normalizes paragon and clear speed factor. It is not perfect but it gives good correlation regarding clear efficiency per paragon.
FYI: I think Demonmonger is confusing the statistical observation post with my efficiency analysis post.
Ive been wizard for as long as i remember and probably still will but barbs should have there day and ww is a fun build . If barbs come out top class so what they have there own leaderboard and deserve to feel powerfull at last. Id like to see a full 200% back on belt. Ww not exactly tanky compared to chantandos and on console with the ng globes problem this is penalty enough already
Bring back the PTR barb before the nerf, please. There is enough evidence that there are stronger classes / builds. Blizz said they listen to the community. And here we are! United together to undo the changes with enough evidence that it isn’t too strong.