800 Paragon = Too Low!

It just feels wrong to not get any more points after 800, which will take less than a week to hit for many. I think 2000 is a much better cap.


With current state of D3 you will get 800 paragons by Sunday… and thats chilling out not pushing it. So yeah… At least 2k… I would say even 3k so we have any goal at all.


1600-2k is still a really good goal, don’t forget we get no power creep besides paragon (sort of, depending on build) because we lose the altar, so levels aren’t going to be lightning fast.

Obviously no matter what the theme is 800 is too fast.


Many players have different opinions about the optimal paragon cap, 3k, 2k, 1600 or maybe 1200, but everyone agrees that 800 is definitely too low. I hope they will hear us and raise it at least a little.


you think 2000.
But someone else who like to grind says 5000
Another says 10,000 because he doesnt need a job for 6 months
and there are very casuals who says 2000 or 5000 is too much
How is the Dev going to decide?

Cap at 800 feels so bad, way to remove “content”… paragonfarm is the endgame content in D3 :slight_smile:


good luck with that lol, if the past is any indication, diablo 3 devs don’t give af… I’m fully convinced they try to see how much BS they can get away with without losing X number of players.

because Devs can do the same thing we can. Look at hours played VS paragon achieved. The only “people” achieving 10000+paragon in a season are bots.

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Thats where you are wrong. S28 has people legit reaching 10,000

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How much XP per hour do you think you’re getting by speed farming GRs? Lets say you’re farming GR140s for XP…

If you ran GR140s for 8 hours per day, at 3 minutes spent per GR, getting 8 trillion experience per hour, it would take you about 258 days to reach paragon 10,000 from paragon 1000 (1000 paragon given as a decent place for people to start farming GR140 in 4man groups). That’s doing nothing but running GRs.

It has currently been 185 days since season 28 started.

To reach the number 10,000 paragon, you would have to play for 11 hours per day with a 4 man group, with 0 downtime. Meaning, you would need 4 people to play the game for 11 hours straight, doing nothing but farming GR140s in exactly 3 minutes for 187 days straight, without stopping for all 4 people.

Sorry, but even the most dedicated person is going to be burnt out by that. They’re going to need to eat, and use the bathroom at different intervals.

Mathematically and logically, that’s just not happening. People are botting.


11 hours a day does not really fail on either account. 18+, then it’s dubious, although not impossible, but 14-15 hours a day is entirely doable.

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Possible? Yes. Probable? No.

You’re not going to convince me that anyone is willing to play diablo 3 for 11 hours of straight GR140 grinding, 3 minutes per GR, for 185 days straight. Let alone 4 people at the same time in a group setting.

I’d love for someone to prove me wrong in season 29 though, I’ll wait for that series of videos on YouTube, of 2,035 hours of just straight up grinding GR140’s spending 3 minutes in each GR.

Don’t get me wrong, when season’s that are worth playing launch, I generally pull a 18-24 hour stretch from the season open, grinding away… but I also don’t continue that pattern for over 6 months, doing the same monotonous task for 11 hours straight.

This also doesn’t include the time it would take to farm GR keys to do that many GRs either.

If you’re running GR140’s in 3 minutes per GR, you can run ~18 GR’s effectively, leaving you 6 minutes per hour for salvage/ID/blood shard spending. That would be 198 GR’s per day. For 185 days. Which is a total of 36,630 GR’s.

If one T16 Nephilim rift gives a minimum of 3 GR keys and a 50% chance to drop a 4th, you could expect to get 18GR keys out of 5 Nephilim rifts. Meaning you would have to farm 39-40 Nephilim rifts per day. Even if you complete them all in 1 minute each and wait for them to close, that’s 58-60 minutes spent per day JUST on farming GR keys.

If you use Cain’s set for extra keys and farm GR keys solo, the time spent farming would be reduced by ~15 minutes.

Leaving 10 hours, 15minutes to farm XP in GR140s. Which now increases the number of GR’s we need to do daily to meet our end goal. Granted, Nephilim rifts give some experience, but it’s not nearly enough to make up for the experience gained from a

Now comes the fun part…

Occam’s Razor: “Occam’s razor states that the simplest explanation is preferable to one that is more complex . Simple theories are easier to verify. Simple solutions are easier to execute.”

What’s more likely?

Someone and 3 other people are THAT dedicated to farming XP on diablo 3?
that they’re botting?

I’d bet my life on botting.


Why so fixated at those numbers specifically though? Taking this season, fastest 150 group clear is 1.01.

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because your average player isn’t speed clearing GR150s.

Even if it wasn’t GR140s, and we used GR150s, it’d still be around 1800 hours.

You’re also comparing the end of one of the easiest seasons to date to normal gameplay.

It’s wild to me how willing you guys are to defend botting lmao…

Neither is your average player paragon 10k.

I never said they were? I argued against someone else’s claim.

I guess we can just throw all logic out the window and keep defending botters. I don’t care anymore. Most of y’all here just want to argue to argue, and this is proof of it. I’m done. Ignored.

You argued that the average player can’t speed clear 150. We are talking about people that reach 10k in a season, this season specifically. So yeah, it kinda sounds like you did since your brought it up in that context.

Your average person has roughly an hour or two of attention span before their brain needs a break. Sure, you’ll see people play longer, but it tends to need to be focused on easy activities that are light on thinking.


Last reply I’ll give your narcissistic chronically online self and demolish your argument with simple statistics. Your AVERAGE player can’t and isn’t speed clearing GR150s. Period. End of story.

The AVERAGE Diablo 3 player just isn’t and can’t. There’s tens of thousands of people that play, maybe even hundreds of thousands. The AVERAGE person isn’t doing that. You can look at the leaderboards all day, there’s currently 1000 clears for 4 player that rank as a “speed clear” in one of the STRONGEST season’s we’ve ever had. that’s AT MAX 4000 people, of which, likely half of those are people who bot. (we’ll see if blizzard does a bot ban-wave at the end of the season) So you’re left with 2000 players. If it were exactly 10,000 players? Statistically, 20% would not be the “average player” (look up what a bell curve is) Your AVERAGE player isn’t botting.

Now if that number is likely higher. For the sake of argument, lets say its exactly 100,000 players, that number falls to 2% of the player base. 2% of the player base is NOT the “average player” and never will be. If I’m to believe what another person told me on another forum post, and there’s over 1,000,000 active Diablo 3 players? That falls to 0.2% of the player base, hardly your “average player”.

Even IF none of the people on the top 1000 4man GR150 clears were botting? That number would STILL be 40%, 4%, and most realistically, 0.4% (respectively). Which STILL isn’t your “average player”.

Here is the definition of average for you:





a number expressing the central or typical value in a set of data, in particular the mode, median, or (most commonly) the mean, which is calculated by dividing the sum of the values in the set by their number.

My argument was quite literally that the average player isn’t 10k paragon and that argument Ayaya made here:

that someone could ask for the paragon cap to be 10,000, because that isn’t happening without botting.

As I said here:

The context here was “the paragon cap being raised”

Your desire to argue just to argue led you to misunderstand the entire thread because reading is hard, apparently.

Now? I’m not replying to any more of your comments. You got mathed out of my line of sight.

An average player in S28 indeed can speed 150s with a bunch of friends in 4man.
Unlimited pool of reflection, occasional enlighten shrine, crazy power creep already ensure a 4k player can speed 150s with friends, let alone a 7-10k player on wiz).

I forgot the xp/hr since S28 is way behind me now… Prolly like 20 tril ++ per hour?
Its a ton of xp to be honest. You might not reach 10k as an average player, but THERE ARE people who didnt bot and reached 10k in S28.

Your refusal to face the facts is alarming.

Any ways S28 should have the 800 paragon cap.
Stop the para farming trend which prevents level playing field for players who are legit and vying for LB position.

Here, seems you need this too:

Enlightened shrine gives 25% xp and lasts 2 minutes. Out of a pool of 10-11 buffs you can get every 30 seconds. This means you can get 6 potion buffs in 3 minute runs, with a ~10% chance to get enlightened per potion, giving you an effective XP gain of roughly ~4%/hr, IF you get Enlightened within 2min of finishing the GR.

I never said there weren’t in S28, I said “in a season.”
An exception to the rule, does not change the rule.
There definitely are a few people who reached 10k paragon legitimately in S28. A FEW definitely not the amount we’re seeing on leaderboards.

You’ve presented ZERO facts. Just subjective opinion. What is a fact, is that blizzard does ban-waves on botters. Your refusal to accept a large portion of these people are botting is alarming. At this point? I’m putting you on ignore too. Nothing you’ve said has been a real argument, just subjective :poop: -posting. You think you’re some kind of crusader god because you cleared a 138 with nearly perfect gear. Sit down.

It needs to be at least 2000, 2000 paragon isn’t even something you’d have to farm for. The “trend” is blizzard not banning botters mid-season and curbing their paragon climb mid-way through. That would 100% weed out all of the cheaters from the legitimate players.