800 Paragon Cap is Actually Perfect

Let’s put it this way.

How many hours/day you have to play to get to 5000 within 60 days?

I have no idea. I haven’t reached 5000 in total. Don’t really see how that’s in any way relevant.

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Why do you want to grind paragon then? Why 5000? Because anything less will not increase your damage enough for it be noticeable. If I remember correctly 5000 is absolute minimum to clrear GR150 without any of these damage boosts we have had last few seasons.

With the help of this calculator:

If we assume you’re playing S29 (without permanent 41% xp buff from pools), all solo, GR120 in 3 Minutes (e.g. Wizard) that would be 10h per day for 60 days.

If we assume GR140 in 4 man groups it’s roughly 3.5h per day.

If we assume future seasons with the return of the altar (some power increase ~7 tiers (original was ~12-15, and permanent pools again) It’s 5h per day for 60 days.
Since a season will be ~90 days this would be 3.3h per day of the season. (Solo)

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Because I enjoy it? Do I need another reason?

Going from 800 to 2800 is definitely noticeable.

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But it still doesn’t change fact that it’s way too many hours/day of same monotone activity. Even 20 laps around Nordschleife in Transit SSV in rain with sim damage on would be more entertaining.

Who are you to deem what people should do with their leisure time?

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For you certainly, for others, especially groups it might not be.

S29 with 800 paragon will be reached in 1-2 days for me.
My S30 and onward scenario would allow me to play 3.3h per day before my character stops progressing. Which is ok for me.

GR150 cleared within 2 days? Now that’s what I want to see. Remember to stream all of it and don’t delete it.

In case this was a comment on my post. I said P800 in 2 days not GR150.

I’m playing Crusader, most likely Crusader doesn’t reach 150 at all, not even in 180 days.(If the season were to last that long)

However there might be GR150 clears in 2 days, check Wudijo or Raxxanterax for instance. Wudi will start Necro with Trag’Oul Blood Nova he actually has a shot at 150. (His goal is worlds first 150) He also usually streams 24 hours on Season start which means he might be able to get ~36h of gametime in two days. This is most likely enough for a fully augmented build.

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But it does exactly that. It has a clearly defined max lvl.

In any case, yeah, PoE is the role model for how to do leveling and endgame in modern A-RPGs. I have a lot of problems with that game due to its trading and the bad combat. But it does lvling and endgame systems quite well.

Agree 100% but D3 is too late. You have to realize the entire D3 system is designed around infinite scaling of paragon especially toughness in builds. Some point forward Blizzard realized the demand is shifting hence buffed toughness into selected builds, but not all builds are equals hence some builds still requires paragon to meet its toughness requirements, if you are keen to build a database on DR% of all the builds in the game. Some have 80% DR some has 96% + which is 5x more tougher.

TL:DR, you cant just simply slap in a too low cap w/o a thorough look into the implications for ALL the builds. 800 is simply TOO LOW for mixture of reasons. This game isnt D2/PoE or even D4.

S28 messing around on Asia, I hit level 70 in ~25 minutes SSF.

Necro to 18 running T1 cube from level 1 (well actually in the low to mid 20s, I overshot the massacre in Elder Sanctum while running the cube) then gems from Kulle to upgrade altar: 12 minutes

(this was actually a bit slow, took me a few extra boss runs than normal to get the necessary diamonds)

https://i.imgur.com/QI5QRI9.jpg

switch to wizard, 1-70 T6 with level 70 gear (ToTFB run to mid 50s, 600+ streak in Fields of Misery pop straight to 70): 13 minutes

https://i.imgur.com/l7E1AQ6.jpg

Total: 25 minutes (in game time, call it ~30 minutes with character creation + challenge rift)

Unearned ‘Join a Cooperative Game’ achievement (what I use for SSF proof on my alt account or main account in other regions prior to S29 SSF mode):

https://i.imgur.com/WTiVR5X.jpg

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Paragon was a bandaid because they had nothing else going on in the game at the time. The game has been much more further developed since then. Still lacking in itemization, but it’s not like gaining 1 point of paragon every x time spent is any more dynamic than finding an ancient primal. Finding the ancient primal is more dopamine, and more dynamic at least. This makes it more potent and worth something.

I think this is worth a try, and I think it will work. Those who are unengaged with defacto infinite paragon grind might stay more engaged now. I likely will, and doubt I will be alone.

Sure, but you find usable primals at what intervalls, 20+ hours or so? That’s a lot of time with little to show for it if not for the constant incremental progress that is paragon.

I’m sure you won’t. I’m also sure that for every one of you there’s at least one of me that considers it’s a horrendous change.

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Leveling in the high levels of Diablo 2 was about that same 20+ hours and even much more the further you got. This is on par. Diablo has never been about a constant power increase after you get endgame geared.

D3 with paragon allowed no way to catch up via RNG if you aren’t at the tip of the spear from day one. The possibility of getting gg drops and being at that spearhead after just one day of amazing RNG is the carrot on the stick the game needs to keep people engaged. I think this will increase casual engagement to something more.

Well, D3 has, for over a decade.

Granted, capped paragon does give you the theoretical possibility to “catch up”, however the vast majority won’t ever do that as they just don’t play nearly enough for that to happen.

And praying that you win the RNG lottery to be able to compete despite not putting the time in, I don’t consider that a viable strategy at all.

D2 was based around trading to get what you wanted though, even if your own RNG for the items you want sucks, you can still acquire them in a sensible time.

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Diablo 1 had no endgame, monsters didn’t even respawn. It was much more like a Rogue like than the latter Diablos

Diablo 2 has not been about the constant power increase. However there still was constsnt progress in form of XP and RNG based progress in form of drops

Diablo 3 has been about the constant power increase, which made it better imo than any other game in the genre.

So your statement is only true for for parts of the series

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Never too late to improve. They only did it that way as a band aid. Time to remove it since the game is much more further developed. If it doesn’t work, then it doesn’t work. If it’s garbage, you have nothing to worry about because they’ll refrain from making it permanent. But if it works, and players do end up more engaged, I hope they keep it.

It’s a psychological factor. If you have the chance to instantly be at the spearhead of power, that’s enough motivation to start. If you’re lapped by 40x, with no chance of catching up, then there’s no motivation to play if being part of the pack is important to you – which it is, most players.

Well this is why we will never see eye to eye. To me, D3 has always been bottom of the barrel, but developed into a good standalone arcadey type game. I’m happy to see the devs looking to make it more like a real diablo game. This is personal opinion.