My problem with Jako’s claims are that he claims this is fixed but never talks about the GR tier he’s testing it on. A “doing no damage test” on GR 115 or whatever is NOT the same mechanically as what you tried.
I guarantee I can get his character, on his PC, to completely lock up the server instance and disconnect him from Battlenet (if you don’t pause) with WW.
The issue is 100% still present for everyone. This problem does not care what your account is or what your PC is or where you’re playing from because it’s on Blizzard’s end.
I’m a little confused, Pro. Rend doesn’t crit, right? How does it proc PE?
Is your concern with the particular tier because of the relative amount of time it takes to kill the mobs (i.e. given a constant set of gear, paragons, etc, it will obviously take longer to kill enemies on GR 125 than on GR 115), or do you believe that a larger monster HP directly causes lag?
I would guess that the lag is more based on the sheer number of calculations necessary, rather than whether the end result of those calculations is larger or smaller, and that you could experience the same game-crashing lag at GR 100, no problem.
Jako, any chance you can submit video? I feel like that would settle this matter pretty quick.
The problem is that you give up something better to put Rend on the bar. Its damage is negligible and PE takes care of its own bleeds. So does having the BK Wedding Band on your follower. Between PE and the BK Band, you have all the bleeds you need in density. There’s zero need for Rend and it contributes nothing of worth to the build.
In its current state and in every possible configuration, the build with Rend on the bar will be weaker than the build without Rend on the bar.
What tier? It takes more than a screen. We’re talking about optimal density for the build, so you need Festering or Battlefield with 3+ screens all grouped together. If you can submit video, that would help, because if what you’re describing is accurate, there has been some kind of server update.
No. Spenders shouldn’t be cast without their animation, and anyway, that wouldn’t fix the problem with Rend’s negligible damage. Adding Rend to the Wastes 6 bonus is only step 1 of getting it to deal worthwhile damage.
The point of the build was never to endlessly whirl. It was always, from its inception, to gather density, Rend them, and then whirl. Even the Blizzcon preview of the set had that baked into its design.
Yeah. If you’re killing the enemies quickly, then you never have that many enemies on the screen at one time. It’s just the density that causes the problem.
I would like to add that that, that there are different kinds of resource spending attacks.
There are spamable resource spending attack and then there is what I refer to as “Support Damage Dealing Skills”.
These Support DD skills are skills that have a cooldown or charges or other restrictions like 1 Hydras max at once, or in the case of Rend that Rend can not be stacked on the same enemy several times.
So there is a difference between Whirlwind, which is a spamable DD skill and Rend, which is more of a Support DD Skill - which btw is also why I personally think that Rend does not belong in the “Secondary Skills Tab”, but in the “Might Skills Tab” along with Overpower, Revenge, etc.
Dunno if you all agree with this distinction, but I think it is worth making.
Did you seriously just tell me GR130 and GR116 have different health? lolololol thanks for that valuable piece of information.
And I have said a few times what I push:
GR115 with regular gear. If I can fill over a screen in each direction with monsters and not have them die for several minutes, I’m pretty sure I’m pushing higg enough for my gear level and stats.
The monster HP shouldn’t matter. Density + number of calculations are what matter. And I’ve had screens of density more than all of the videos ya’ll keep showing me.
I accept you guys still lag. I do not. You can’t convince me otherwise. So I don’t know what you guys are arguing. I only lag in groups or if I forget to force close the Blizzard Updater.
As I also said, I tested this on PTR a while ago even adding Slaughter and Miranae. Rolled the damage off my weapons. Got an entire level of GR90 Arreat Crater density and spun around for 10 minutes testing this.
Between the Dust Devils and Bloodshed changes, I do not lag using Whirlwind. Period.
If it really is just a problem at GR130 that for some reason only happens then regardless of density, so be it. I’m operating on 1/4 of the main stat and half the gem levels, so I guess I don’t have to worry about it.
I know I’ve said this before, but I still think you vastly overestimate how interested most barb players are in adding a rend cycle to ww. We already have to keep a close eye on cooldowns while cycling through threatening shout, ip, and wotb–throwing in an occasional battle rage. Adding a stop/start rend sequence adds another layer of arcade/console level button-pressing micro-management. I, for one, hope they don’t boost rend as a solution to waste’s issue. I don’t want to be forced into that play style.
Here’s my perspective: you don’t seem at all like the sort of person who just decides to make a bunch of stuff up, so I’m very inclined to believe you when you say you don’t experience lag with WW.
But, I’m super confused, as I and most other players who give WW a go DO experience a soul-crushing, game-crashing amount of lag. So it would be great to see what you might be doing differently, that results in your different experience. If we could figure out some easy way to avoid lag with WW, that would brighten a lot of people’s day!
At GR 115 if you fill up a screen with trash even at low Paragon / Gem levels, WW will kill small trash simply because 115 is not a high tier and the AD will start to work on trash. WW has the damage to chunk down low HP trash in the 110s range, regardless of your paragon.
Monster HP does matter to an extent because the D3 servers and/or their code seem very unoptimized when it comes to bleeds plus AD calculations. There are instances in the past where a PE reliant trash killer (WD and Wizard when Archon used PE) would lag in 150 but not in 140s. So monster HP totals do play a role.
So yeah the GR level and monster HP does matter. Testing on a GR 100 or even 115 is not the same.
Do your test on a GR 124 or higher and record a video then I’ll believe you. You need AD, PE, Bloodshed, and Dust Devils. Also your Rampage stacks can’t be picking anything significant up (meaning if you reach 25 Rampage stacks it means you’re killing too much trash at that tier to lock up the server).
A 115 is not a push tier for anyone. It is hard for a FB WD to create game killing lag on a 115 but they can lock up the game completely on 140.
The problem is not fixed for you or for anyone else because it is a server side issue. It currently exists for any class that uses PE and AD. DH can trigger it, WD can trigger it, and Wizard can trigger it. And Barb can just completely break game instances due to Dust Devil mechanics.
Most players don’t experience the lag because they are not attempting a true push for there lvl or using pain enhancer+bloodshed+high area dmage and using spear to group enemies on a lvl that will get you top clear. I for one enjoy speed clears and use gogok due to lower amount of trash pulls I encounter so there is no lag ever. Go and play in any 4man group at any lvl or go and pull 3-4 screens worth of trash on a good map and your game will lock up. I guarentee it.
I mean, if I can’t clear a 115, then it is clearly at my level for my stats/gear. If the monsters aren’t dying, I don’t know what else you expect me to do.
And I already said playing in 4 man will cause me to lag.
Just because you can’t clear it doesn’t mean your damage is not enough to kill off small units of trash which is a huge part of what stresses the server; accumulating screens of trash that don’t die and add up to calculations.