So we are in a situation on this forum and feedback that either the complaint is something isn’t strong enough (rightfully so) or that they feel it’s too strong.
If you want to be a plague Javazon and want it buffed that’s fair enough because there should viability and you shouldn’t be walled into playing Lightning Javazon.
However, something I can’t agree with is everyone calling for nerfs on Holy Fire because Dragon is too powerful for a P1 game… Hammerdin still exists and cost of entry to make it viable for Hell chaos is basically nothing and everyone finds that to be okay.
People are literally complaining about a build that 90% of players will never be able to afford or play. You’re going to need 3x Sur, 3x Lo, 1x Cham to play this build. If Holy fire paladin is such an issue for PvM let’s keep that same energy for Hammerdin’s and Infinity Merc.
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It’s a bit OP for low leveling process in single player, but who cares, Normal mode is just a stepping stone. We need powerful skills if you want to balance a game around 8 player teams.
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That’s the thing too though as strong as Paladin is for Normal…he isn’t. Sorc, assassin, fire druid are all still better.
You’re having to walk up and right click enemies while those classes are clearing whole screens with a couple casts.
It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever that people are mad that holyfire is strong.
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I read these diablo forums like 10-11 years ago and the same posts complaining about buffs (or nerfs) never stopped existing. A few are clearly acceptable but others are of a very childish level, especially those who threaten to leave the game if they don’t heed their complaints.
Because it’s a very difficult build to complete, I think should keep it as it is because it wouldn’t do any good to find high-level runes to do nothing later. When finally a buff would increase game options for players, the players themselves complain. People are never satisfied
The main thing I think thats triggered most people is the fact that you literally do nothing at all but exist. You exist and walk around (really sprint) and everything dies. I doubt that perception will change.
In a single player game I don’t really care, but also in a lifetime of gaming I’ve never seen such a stupidly OP build in my life aside from the days when everyone had godmode hacks for D1 and D2. Its hard to even call it a game at that point. Its basically a dungeon walking loot gambling simulator.
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The funny thing is that you are correct and when people will try to use these leveling up tactics and then realize how all the pros are already in Hell farming BIS gear, while thy are behind, they will continue to complain about how OP a class is.
But you can already do that with good gear.
I agree that there needs to be some goal in this game and right now it’s basically just Infinity…when you get infinity as an elemental char it’s GG p1 health insta clear everything.
I can totally understand people being upset because the build just runs around…but the reality is it doesn’t have the item mobility of an enigma or a sorc. Plus, we are talking about /Players 1 health.
7 High runs to clear Players 1 hell games…seems reasonable to me.
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Sort of. Is there a current build where you stand there and do nothing and everything around you just collapses? I mean literally nothing, not even hitting one key, no merc, nothing. Just exist and win?
I only really play mages in games so maybe Ive missed something…
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So where do you draw the line I’d ask?
Is it laying down traps and clearing everything instantly?
Is it just holding right click and killing everything in the game with a 1 Um rune budget?
That’s the thing…Holy fire is now a viable starter for people in Normal. Then it disappears until you’re rich and it’s not even the best starter.
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It is outperformed by multiple sorc specs, hammerdin, CE etc… No idea why people are up in arms about it when it costs more than any of those specs to overpower P1 and it doesn’t even do it as well.
Trapsin, Hydras, summons necro, Valkyrie, fire golem. The fantasy of Holy fire was to be a godlike aura that just does insane amounts of damage. You are sacrificing a lot to equip this skill, you can’t have others skills active while using this skill.
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I don’t think the problem is with skills being strong, but for this particular case it’s 1. Holy Fire was already strong, was it as strong as it maybe should have been? No. But this is (from what I hear) way too far in the other direction. And 2. power without interaction is a tricky business indeed. Every single other build (I think) in the game aside from auradins have to actually do something to achieve something (as in, click/use abilities/spend resource/etc). Personally, I always thought holy fire and holy shock were already balanced. I didn’t think they needed buffs/changes at all. Or if they did, minor/minimal, like +20% damage increase overall, tops. Again, from the sounds of it, this is anything but the case, it’s more like 200% damage increase overall. That is simply way, way, way out of control and way too much for a skill that was already by and large strong enough. So maybe those are a couple reasons why. It’s not about skills being strong, we like skills being strong.
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I hear you, but all those builds require at least some interaction with the game besides moving and existing. You have to lay traps, you have to summon hydras or your necro summons, not super familiar with the last two but I imagine it requires at least clicking one button.
Like I said I dont really care, I only play mages so for ladder its not gonna matter to me and in general it has no bearing on my playing the game whastoever, but Im just saying that people think its OP because it requires nothing but existing, not even a single click in the game.
I agree clearing without interaction is a problem so I think I’ll test this in players 8 with fully min-maxed gear and see how it does in a timed baal run then I’ll do the same with a hammerdin.
I’d imagine the Hammerdin is going to do it faster with 1/2 the budget.
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But isn’t that the idea of offensive auras? You walk away while AURA deals damage to monsters, not you. If holy fire, after finding all these runes doesn’t do any damage to monsters, then these offensive auras shouldn’t even exist. Why kill yourself finding high value runes for such an ineffective build?
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I think people are drawing the line at needing to at least click something once for an effect to occur. People think its OP because you could literally farm entire areas using a mouse with only one button since you don’t even need to right click to cast any skill, spell, nothing.
But also like I said I just play mages so meh, if they wanna push this through and people want to build it and they enjoy this kind of gameplay more power to them. I dont PVP and I dont do public MF games, so its just gonna mean I can pay even less attention in public XP baal runs than I already do.
Yeah I gotcha but I think you’re paying for that convenience.
Let’s say you invest 7 high runes into a build it should ideally get you some benefit over the other people who invested 2 high runes.
The return for the level of investment isn’t outrageous. The cost of entry is high enough to justify the damage in /Players 1. It’s still going to do most things slower than a Hammerdin, Infinity Sorc, and Infinity Sin.
So who cares? Nerfing it from being an option in a Solo player game is absolutely atrocious. I probably won’t even play it but it would be nice to know I can save up runes to invest into something.
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We play games for a challenge, the challenge is what keeps us interested and playing. When a game is too easy we wander off and find a new challenge. Sure some players are around for the lols and just want to faceroll things but they will also get bored quickly and move on. That’s why we need balance.
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I totally get what you mean but look at the logic of this, right?
So I make a hammerdin and I can kill everything in the game easily with two spirits. So do I quit? Or do I keep facerolling content to save up for that really expensive cool build I can play.
For me having a goal in an ARPG is the most important thing in the world. Without a goal I’m done. I think that’s the same for a lot of people. ARPG players generally need a reason to keep playing. D2 in particular is easy to beat difficult to master. Having a new expensive Meta build to chase sounds like a dream.
Don’t spend the runes for and play the build that you find OP then?