What are your thoughts on Hydra/orb vs Hydra/Blizzard

A while back, I believe it might have been D2R season 1 or the ladder race event, Raxx was using a Hydra/Blizzard build. Unfortunately I’ve been unable to find details on the build. I’m considering switching to a hybrid hydra build to keep things interesting and to farm areas where such a build excels. All of this will be off-line solo. So what are your thoughts/opinions on hybrid hydra + Frozen Orb vs Hydra + Blizzard? Are you guys leveling with the build through an early transition in the 30-35 level range or playing a tried and true path to 75 before transition? What is it like before and after sunder charms, and before/after infinity?

Gimme the good, bad, ugly, great, terrible, crazy, etc., all of it.

I would go with meteorb (Fireball + Frozen Orb) hybrid. Fireball is way more flexible than Hydra and allows you to aim strait toward your target. As Fireball does not go by Lightning breakpoints but by all other skills, you would focus on aiming for 105% fcr. Sorc’s cast fast enough to mf either way at a rate of 8 frames.

Gear varies depending on whether you want more mf or more killing speed. There are a variety of ways to build a sorc. That’s the magic to it all. Again aim for 105% fcr depending on your budget. You decide.

I’m not saying you can’t go with 200% fcr. But if you ever do then you will need a fire sunder and all fcr gear. But going with a pure fire build with all end game gear. That is if you want to take that path by going for killing speed rather than mf. It’s a good way to clear more monsters and find more socketables. More drops = more chances. Mf does not effect rune drops of whatsoever.

Thanks. I’ve played MeteOrb before. I’ll be going the MF route.

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Fire Bolt into Fireball into Hydra is extremely powerful in softcore normal and nightmare.
Upgrade Fire Bolt until Fireball, upgrade Fireball until level 20 and then start saving points for spending in Hydra + Fire Mastery.

Do make sure to get a couple of levels in Frozen Orb and 1 point in Cold Mastery before Act 4 Nightmare.

Hydra a super safe spell that only starts to slow in Hell with all the immunes.
Leveling to level 70 in Nightmare, and you can get level 15 or so Frozen Orb for immunes, and invest the rest in a strong Hydra and Fireball.

It hits a proverbial brick wall in Hell without good gear around late Act 3, due to high cold resistance and high fire resistance.
Sunder charms are not good for Hydra until you have Flickering Flame.

With Sunder charms, Frozen Orb + Ice Blast + Blizzard and 20 cold mastery is viable, as Ice Bolt is a synergy for all three, and Cast Delays are now individual instead of global.

It’s far more powerful than a hybrid, in my opinion.

Hydra is cool looking and all… And the damage is decent… But the delay between cast and action for Hydra is too slow for me. Ain’t got time to wait on the Hydra to pop up, look around at his two twins, look at the time, check the TV guide, then decide to start snotrocketing firebolts at enemies.

:stuck_out_tongue:

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The above sounds like a knock on MeteOrb as well. Most mobs don’t spawn with both fire and cold immunities which is why one would employ a hybrid build. Even with a dual fire/cold immunity we still have access to Static, Telekensis, and Merc for physical damage. So can you explain how one hits a brick wall; especially on /p1?

LoL… what do you have time for and what build do you usually run?

Either:
1: Charged bolt/Nova starting out, then respec to either MeteOrb or Blizzard.
2: Fireball sorc with Leaf staff, then progress to MeteOrb or respec to Blizzard.

Aaand a whole bunch of “Tir” gear starting out. :smiley:

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Something to keep in mind is that 2.6 broke -enemy fire res% to not work with Hydra (at least in single player, haven’t tested online), it worked in 2.5 and prior.

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I searched the word “hydra” in:
https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/diablo2/23899624/diablo-ii-resurrected-ladder-season-three-now-live#Patch
… and there is nothing mentioned about hydra there. Where is this documented?

Update:
I found a post in bug report forums. Does this minus enemy resistance bug affect online and off-line? Has the devs made any public statements on the status of this bug?

It affects offline, not sure about online. No public statements regarding the Hydra -res% bug specifically, but this is very likely related to the traps -res% bug that’s been fixed online but still broken offline.

Thanks @DarkMaster. I’m glad I posed the questions before making a decision.

Why do most players need a guide on a build? Normal and Nightmare can be done in technically any build, then when you start hell around lvl 65-72, you will have a lot of skill points to start testing by yourself. You should have at least 2 respec if you did not follow any stupid guides and did not use one around lvl 30-35. So, just add 1 point on the skill you are interested in and start killing in Act 1. If the skill is not strong enough, add more points to it. If not enough points, and you dont dont feel safe due to slow clearing speed, too many immunes and always waiting for your merc to kill, then maybe try a different spell. At the end of the day your playstyle will matter more than how someone else use a certain build. There are more skills to utillise and you will never play the way how someone who is more dedicated to this game can. And this is true for all classes and all of their builds. Not to mention synergies usually guide your hand and usually you max out your main skill(s), so we are not talking about a big trouble finding what works for you and what not. The third respec should also be within easy reach with basically any characters, so even if you made a mistake there are 2 chances to find a setup you can use efficiently.

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I do not agree with your approach. Not everyone plays online and even those that do play online many play SSF. I play off-line so I cannot depend on others to carry me or donate drops to me, which would trivialize such a time investment. I may not be interested in making 2 to 4 throw away characters at this time to find an optimal point allocation for a build that I may not even like. Experimentation has a place but what you suggest does not align with my goals. In addition to your experimentation suggestion it does not take into account undocumented bugs (see posts above) that would skew the results.

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I did not say anything about carrying and what I said was the “worst-case scenario”, the SSF journey (that I also do in this season).

The general idea is to look at the skill tree, select what skill you want to use as your main skill, check how many synergies and bonus skill it has (like elemental masteries for the Sorc), so you will know that when maxing them how many point will have on a given level.
Another important idea is to only add points to a main skill when you feel that it is underperforming. This is to see how effective it truly is with your playstyle. While main skill are technically always maxed, this is still a good way to forecast its effectiveness for later harder gameplay.

You asked hydra + (orb or blizz). On Normal you can start Blizz (its available at lvl24, so it is reasonable to start testing with it). Add just 1 point to it. At lvl 24 you probably wont have +skills, maybe 1 or 2 if you are lucky, but that is not a game changer right now. Assign this skill to the button you like and go, see if you can kill mobs with it. If even with 1 pt is seems strong, that is a good indication that it will stay strong later. If not, then check how many synergies it has. Hydra has many, so for me it is a red flag that PROBABLY it will only be super effective when all synergies are maxed and for Hydra it means 60 + 20 pts (20 Hydra, 20-20 Fbolt/Fball, 20 FMastery). This leaves very few points on other skills (not to forget you need Teleport and I tend to add 1 on Warmth, that are immediately 3 points that you cannot use for main skills), so for me this is another red flag that it is either not good for non-endgame builds as main skill, or it will only shine in particular areas, but generally speaking I would not rely on it for playthrough. You can still play around with it and see how effective it is FOR YOU. “FOR YOU” is the most important thing here, because we all play differently and what works for a speedrunner/streamer, might not work for you.

If you are satisified with Blizz/Hydra or Hydra/Blizz, then good, you found a working build for yourself! I would personally level up as much as I can to save respec for Hell, unless I am truly stuck.

When you reach Hell, that is when you need to be a bit patient and start testing in Act1, but generally speaking this is when you can use your first respec and do a similar testing with FOrb. Just go and start killing around and you will see how good that skill is for the amount of skill points you spend on it. Once again, dont max out the skill just yet, but gradually go up until you find it effective.

If you are patient you should still have at least one, but rather 2 respecs, so you can still change which build you feel as “yours”. Just because you have 10 unspent skill points, it does not mean you need to spend them. Patience and only spend pts when you truly need them. Most of my char at Hell has 30-50 stat pts and tend to have a few skill points as well when I am testing a new build.

But this is my 2 cents, you dont need to agree. Many players want instant results and they dont like finding out things on their own. I am probably too old for this and I enjoy the path that leads to undeerstanding a class in D2. :smiley:

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I mean, after the skill 3 + infinite skill resets, you can just minmax and not get Hydra before you’ve killed Baal in Hell.

But playing solo, as a Hydra sorceress… the progress is worse than that of Meteorb because of the lack of synergies.

For Meteorb:
The fire skills are more powerful as they synergize heavily with one another, and you get more points into Frozen Orb for free without sacrificing much viability for the fire skills.

For Hydra… as the build implies, you’d traditionally start with Hydra at level 30 – which doesn’t give synergy bonuses to Fireball, leaves you without Meteor, and with a weaker Fireball, as Fireball benefits more from it’s synergies than Hydra does, and less from Fire Mastery than Hydra Does.
Hydra and Fireball are not very synergistic compared to Fireball and Meteor – requires more points to be viable… leaving less points for Frozen Orb, or if you level Frozen Orb first, has a significantly weaker Fireball than the Fireball in Meteorb, and Hydra already isn’t comparable to Meteor.

Hydra is safer, however. You can target off-screen enemies with ease.
Great for Hardcore.

The devs brought Hydra from terrible/non-viable (the state in LoD) to less strong than Meteor or Fireball/Meteor. I don’t think they ever intended for Hydra to numerically equivalent to Meteor or Fireball/Meteor, which could explain fewer synergies. The above does not explain a brick wall (a hard check) but a slower progression. Although I was able to deduce your meaning.

The bigger issue is the double hit the Sorceress has taken with the nerf to cold mastery and the minus enemy resistances affecting hydra. If we were to consider the LoD patch 1.14D, MeteOrb is considered finished around CLvl 85 or 87. The nerf to cold mastery requires additional points to achieve the same damage with FO.

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I played both, orb is good for up to players 3, after that it takes too long to kill so blizzard is better. If you’re doing solo I’d suggest going orb over blizzard but if you’re in full games then go with blizzard

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I’ve been running a Hydra/Orb this season and really enjoy it. I think Cutthroat is right that Orb works better for solo/low player count while Blizz is better for high player count. I mostly play my Sorc solo, so Orb is fine. Also, Orb gives you a more frequently useable “interactive” attack, where Blizz is more fixed.

Full disclosure though, I kinda hate using Blizz. Orb is so much more fun to use.

@Technomancer, @Cutthroat2:
Can you guys post details on your builds and gear? Its too bad the devs and the web team never added web profiles to D2R like what D3 has. If you guys play off-line then you can share your char builds/gear/stats through the d2 planner at maxroll.gg.

The best option — go full blizzard with cold sunder

Second best — go maxed orb (with synergies and enough cold master around 100-125) and firewall

İf you can get flickering flame and enough pcs tal (for -fire res from wand) or some facets (phoenix is god tier but not mandatory) then pure fire sorc with fire sunder is my favorite and probably the fastest killing sorc out there

İ dont like the meteorb hybrid other then mf bosses or cows cos in general farming there are way too many fire immunes and you end up using orb way too much and guess what your orb is half baked

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