WF will be better than Faith in PTR 2.4? No

Amazon
1

This is the dpf (average damage per frame) currently in my build (500dex, standard build):
Data Analyse:

      1st:  566.21 ->Case III, faith + act2 merc with might and con, 7f
      2nd: 545.55 ->Case II, WF + act2 merc with might and con, 9f,
      3rd: 526.35 -> Case I, WF+ act1 merc with faith, 7f,
      4th, 471.92 -> Case III, faith + act2 merc with might, 7f;
      5th, 435 -> Case II, WF + act2 merc with might, 9f;
      6th, 404.57 ->Case III, faith in hand(7f) without merc;
      7th, 353.55 -> Case II, WF in hand(9f) without merc;

So, currently, the best build for physical bowazon (specially for multi arrow bowazon) is Faith plus act2 merc with might and con auros.

In PTR 2.4, multi arrow will get 240% ED from synergies of guided arrow, and strafe will get 300% more damage from multi-arrow and guilded arrow. So the dmg will change as following:

Data Analyse, For PTR 2.4

      Multi Shot: +240%
      1st:  566.21 x 19.4/17 =  646.14 ->Case III, faith + act2 merc with might and con, 7f
      2nd: 545.55 x 16.4/14 =  639.07 ->Case II, WF + act2 merc with might and con, 9f,
      @3rd: 526.35 x 12.9/10.5 = 646.65 -> Case I, WF+ act1 merc with faith, 7f,

      Strafe: +300% (it's not sure the exact ED for strafe in PTR 2.4, at least 300%)
      1st:  566.21x 20/17 =  666.12 ->Case III, faith + act2 merc with might and con, 7f
      2nd: 545.55 x 17/14 = 662 ->Case II, WF + act2 merc with might and con, 9f,
      @3rd: 526.35 x 13.5/10.5 = 676 -> Case I, WF+ act1 merc with faith, 7f,

Here I did some wrong because I didn’t take the +skills on faith into account. Synergies +5skills make faith + pride still better than WF + faith. +skills have little impact on damage before, but it is useful in PTR 2.4. Act 1 merc’s skills still looks useless.

Maybe bow skill lifer will be much worthful for mixed build.

2

I See all this getting nerfed very fast, Theres no way they will let these huge buffs pass, just like last PTR buffs with other classes.

3

Maybe. But ppl always like to buff but nerf. Devs should know that. In PTR 2.4, we can use act1 merc not limited to act 2 merc. This is a big improvement.
If the new act5 merc can use beast, maybe bowazon should hire act 5 merc. That’s great if he can. Pray.

4

Are your calculations including damage adders form wartravs (+15-25 damage), charms (up to +100 max damage) and the circlet slot (+45 max damage for faith based builds, +120% ed for WF based builds)?

It’s hard to make sense of your data since it’s not showing where the damages from the 7 cases are coming from.

Here’s what I would consider the 4 builds to compare and their DPS calculations, assuming 500 dex. We also shouldn’t assume +300% synergy with strafe since it’s unlikely you will max multishot unless you don’t use the skill.

Also with Strafe, attacks per second calculations are pulled from maxroll, but maxroll assumes only 3fpa is possible where it seems like the 2fpa Strafe bug has been fixed in D2R, so we have to calculate strafe separately later (it should favour any setup that uses a Faith).

Also with WF based setups, you’re also contending with potential attack rating issues and have less resistances. For the WF + Act 2 setup however, you have the option to use a 160/60 armour, which would tip this over into the highest DPS above all setups, at the cost of some survivability (needs to be made up in 6 small charms) or the ability to use enigma.

And lastly, it’s important to note that the WF + Act 1 setup is a very flimsy build, as you often fall outside of the fanaticism aura range unless you’re using enigma.

Faith GMB + Act 2
Circlet using 45ias/45max damage
Level 28 Strafe

  • Normal: (386 + 40 + 45 + 100) * (1 + (500 + 300 + 288 + 270 + 345)/100) * 3.57 / 2
    = 18,376.81
  • Multishot: (386 + 40 + 45 + 100) * (1 + (500 + 300 + 288 + 270 + 345 + 240)/100) * 3.57 * 3/4 / 2
    = 15,617.23
  • Strafe: (386 + 40 + 45 + 100) * (1 + (500 + 300 + 288 + 270 + 345 + 260)/100) * 6.82 / 2
    = 40,168.88

Faith MB + Act 2
Circlet using 15ias/75max damage
Level 28 Strafe

  • Normal: (298 + 40 + 75 + 100) * (1 + (500 + 300 + 288 + 270 + 345)/100) * 3.57 / 2
    = 16,510.16
  • Multishot: (298 + 40 + 75 + 100) * (1 + (500 + 300 + 288 + 270 + 345 + 240)/100) * 3.57 * 3/4 / 2
    = 14,030.89
  • Strafe: (298 + 40 + 75 + 100) * (1 + (500 + 300 + 288 + 270 + 345 + 260)/100) * 6.82 / 2
    = 36,088.68

WF + Act 2
Circlet using 45ias/120 enhanced damage
Level 24 Strafe

  • Normal: (613 + 40 + 10 + 100) * (1 + (500 + 300 + 120 + 270 + 345)/100) * 2.78 / 2
    = 17,340.32
  • Multishot: (613 + 40 + 10 + 100) * (1 + (500 + 300 + 120 + 270 + 345 + 240)/100) * 2.78 * 3/4 / 2
    = 14,914.27
  • Strafe: (613 + 40 + 10 + 100) * (1 + (500 + 300 + 120 + 270 + 345 + 260)/100) * 6.67 / 2
    = 48,220.26

WF + Act 1
Circlet using 45ias/120 enhanced damage
Level 24 Strafe

  • Normal: (613 + 40 + 10 + 100) * (1 + (500 + 300 + 120 + 144)/100) * 3.57 / 2
    = 15,853.16
  • Multishot: (613 + 40 + 10 + 100) * (1 + (500 + 300 + 120 + 144 + 240)/100) * 3.57 * 3/4 / 2
    = 14,341.39
  • Strafe: (613 + 40 + 10 + 100) * (1 + (500 + 300 + 120 + 144 + 260)/100) * 6.67 / 2
    = 36,235.18

Magic arrow is getting a big buff in 2.4 where each skill level converts 2% physical into magic, instead of the current 1%.

5

All of your cases miss the strongest one post patch, 8fpa Windforce Amazon wearing a 60ias/160ed armor instead of fortitude and atma’s scarab. Also, there is no need to stuff all of the inventory with max damage jewels like a complete noob unless you PVP. I’d never go out into PVM without a cube, tome of id/town portal and at least 2x4 empty columns to pick up stuff. That way I play more instead of micromanaging my inventory.

6

Your multishot calculation is wrong. There is a -25% penalty so you have to multiply the end result with 0.75. Also, lvl 24 critical strike has got 71% chance of double damage. You multiply the end result with 1.71, too.

Windforce setup:
35 - 547 damage
15 - 25 war traveler
0 - 10 from razortail
0 - 68 from 5 x 10 max damage gcs and 6 3 max damage scs

damage range: 50 - 650
average damage =(650 + 50)/2 = 350
Raw damage per second, any respectable bowazon has got their critical strike value at least at 71% so the real damage is even higher. 71% chance for double damage:

  1. WF Faith 7 fpa setup after patch:
    total ed = 300 forty + 120 helmet + 500 dex + 144 fana + 240 synergy = 1304ed
    average multi dps = 350 * 14.04 * 0.75 * 25/7 = 13162
    multi damage after crit = 13162 * 1.71 = 22507

  2. 9fpa might/pride merc setup:
    total ed = 300 forty + 120 helmet + 500 dex + 300 might+ 345 pride + 240 synergy = 1805ed
    average multi dps = 350 * 19.05 * 0.75 * 25/9 = 13890
    multi damage after crit = 13890 * 1.71 = 23751

  3. 8fpa might/pride merc setup:
    total ed = 160ed armor+ 120 helmet + 500 dex + 300 might+ 345 pride + 240 synergy = 1665ed
    average multi dps = 350 * 17.65 * 0.75 * 25/8 = 14478
    multi damage after crit = 14478 * 1.71 = 24757

Without an expensive 60ias/160ed armor but just a 60ias from armor:
total ed = 120 helmet + 500 dex + 300 might+ 345 pride + 240 synergy = 1545ed
average multi dps = 350 * 16.45 * 0.75 * 25/8 = 13494
multi damage after crit = 13494 * 1.71 = 23074

7

I’m already accounting for the multishot penalty, see where I multiply by 3/4.

I’m also assuming that all builds have 1.71 multiplier for CS so decided to leave this off as it’s irrelevant for comparison’s sake.

I did forget Razortail though for the WF setups, I’ll update my post.

8

I didn’t use the best jewels like 15ias40ed, 15ias15max, 30max. Very hard to have 75 max in helmet, and hard to have 100max in inventory (I just put 70 max in inventory). The damage in your build is theoretical. If there are not so many max jewels in your build, MB faith will be worse than WF, and GMB faith should be close to WF. Max damage is good for Faith but WF.
In my real build (not extreme build), I just use (Diamond Faith, forti, trav, LoH, 70max sc), all the data in the first part is recorded from the dashboard. The second part is calculated by just changing the ED from skills in PTR 2.4. My calculation show WF is a little bit better than diamond Faith. Your calculation is right, WF will be close but not better than GMB faith in extreme build.

And (613 + 40 + 10 + 100) ? , looks you use 3pc 15ias40Ed jewel but 1pc 15ias40ED and 2pc 15max40ED jewel in your calculation for WF (still bug?).

Magic arrow is getting a big buff in 2.4 where each skill level converts 2% physical into magic, instead of the current 1%.
Exactly, Magic arrow is very good for single physical immu mob, but not good for a group of them. Don’t like to kill them one by one. Physical bowazon (specially multi bowazon) need high lvl/chance amp. I’m greedy. Hah,

300 might+ 345 pride, a little bit too much,

I just did a rough calculation, so I use 200 might + 300 pride. Anyway, glory back to WF, which is very cheap but as good as any faith!

9

Sure, the circlet is the single most expensive piece of the build, but it doesn’t make this purely theoretical. You can skimp on the quality of the jewels used which should affect the calculations of all listed builds. Notice I haven’t listed to use any +18 damage jewels and used fortitude for all builds instead of 160/60 or +72 armours.

If we also want to be realistic, 99% of bowazons won’t be level 99 either so Windforce should realistically have 9 to 15 max damage subtracted.

The 613 component is based on 290% ed on Windforce (250% naturally on WF socketed with a 40/15 bringing it to 39 to 265) plus 309 max damage from being level 99. War travs adds the 40, Razortail adds the 10 and that’s 100 in charms, which can be hard to get but 8x 10 max damage charms should get you most of the way there before considering small charms. Highest possible on grand charms is +14.

For Windforce builds however, you probably want some more resist charms to make up for the shortfall in resists from not using faith.

That’s actually not true. Magic arrow with pierce does handle groups that are together reasonably well. Amp would be great, but you would likely expend your mana with multishot by the time amp damage procs from Atma’s, and even if it does proc, those monsters will still have 80%+ physical resistances. Magic arrow converts 20-25% physical damage before patch 2.4 and 40-50% after patch 2.4 assuming you’ve maxed the skill.

You’re right in that the requirements to make faith the highest DPS build has gone up quite significantly. Bit disappointing to be honest.

10

Nice to see the changes in PTR 2.4. Not limited to faith + pride any more. More builds is possible. Act 1 and act 5 merc both have some chance working with bowazon.

I like multi, so I prefer to using amp + multi to kill PI mobs if I could. MA is buffered, but piercing doesn’t work when mobs don’t stand in line and we have to point to them one by one, not so good as multi.

11

I don’t agree with this either. WF may have been superseded by faith in being the best bow in the game, but it’s still a perfect option.

I do think if these proposed synergies were to stick in 2.4, then faith should be slightly buffed. Give it a variable +330 to +350% ed.

With multi, you pretty much need to have leechable monsters in the same area or chug down mana pots to make this work. Multishot also has the -25% damage penalty on top of hitting monsters with 80+% physical resistances and that’s after you proc amp if at all.

Magic arrow is particularly great in places like Arcane Sanctuary where the ghosts stack perfectly.

12

No, MA is just good for AS. If running in WSK2 or WSK3, u will know MA is not good to kill the hell temptress. Bowazon is very easy to be in danger when firing MA due to no life leech. If u can cast amp, all problems solved.

13

Maybe I should ask then… what were you using for amp and what level magic arrow and multishot were you using?

Because Atma’s scarab only has a 5% chance to cast amp damage. Even if you have 4-5 temptresses clumped together getting hit by your multishot volleys, it would still take on average 5 volleys to proc amp damage before you can start doing any damage to them.

By the time you’ve proced amp, you could have already killed the temptresses with magic arrow.

Either that or you’re using a good enchant and/or large amounts of elemental damage on your multishot, in which case amp is really not needed anyway.

14

As I posted before, bowazon need a better way to cast amp but atmas’. Physical bowazon still don’t have an effective way to treat the PI mobs and boss, even after a good buffer in PTR 2.4.

15

I suggest testing out a decent level magic arrow + pierce together in the PTR if you haven’t already. It’s not super efficient compared to bulldozing non-physical immunes with multishot, but then that’s kind of how it should be.

All that said, I should also state that I’ve been using faith and average a 3.3k multishot in 2.3, so my magic arrow is quite good. If you suffer from low damage and don’t have a high level magic arrow, then perhaps you’re better off using something like harmony vs physical immunes.

16

Currently, MA is the best choice to treat PI. But it is not good, when running WSK2/3. Only high lvl/chance AMP can solve all problems, including killing boss. Call for better ways for casting amp other than buffering multi/strafe.
Blizzard run to wrong way.

17

Strafe always have attack rating bug. Strafe never hit Baal no matter whether you have 20k attacking + Merc using conviction aura. I can strafe Baal whole day without even scratch him, but the Guided arrow kill him very fast because it always hit.

I can’t imaging how can strafe hit anything without holding Faith and using conviction Merc. Unless Blizzard going to fix the bug.

18

Strafe has a thing called next delay, where after a strafe arrow travels in the same space as the target, the game will decide to make subsequent arrows miss for a short period of time - 4 frames. This basically means that if you use faith and strafe, only 1 out of 3 arrows will hit a target, no matter what target it is.

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19

I think I hit 5/3/3/3/7 frame with GMB Faith Strafe + 20% IAS glove. According to next-hit-delay “awesome feature”, my 1st/3rd/5th strafe attack should hit. But, that doesn’t seem to be the case. Unless, I’m missing something else here.

20

Strafe has a NHD, next hit delay. So you never shoot at a single enemy because the second arrow would miss.

Thus, you use guided arrow for baal.