We’ll see if they actually listen to the feedback like they said they would.
Shapeshifting wasn’t great before, but it was good enough and I could kill ubers once I’d geared up.
With these changes the early acts of hell are challenging even with the best gear, so mini ubers and especially uber tristram are basically impossible. Just way too weak and slow now.
Fixing the IAS calculations is fine. Matching shape shifted forms to the druid’s untransformed attack rates I think is where the huge nerfs are coming from and that change needs to be done away with. There is no weapon or gear in the game that can make shape shifting usable with this change in place.
We used to duel way back in the day Ink and were friends. Im just as appalled as you about Werebear taking a hit with the IAS since I love Werebear. if you remember GrizzlyBear on useast that is me!. (and nice to see you lol)
IDK, I think its a good change the stuff should be standardized so its consistent. Yes, its a big nerf so maybe fury, and the things changed by this should be buffed a lot to make up for it. I think buffing stuff that was nerfed by this is better then reverting it to being broken again
This is what the PTR is for though to test and experiment with big changes
The buff would have to be pretty insane not only damage wise, but also Fury would have to be uninterruptible…
Really it should just be like release… IAS in equipment counts, cap FPA at 3.
There is a right and a wrong way to nerf. Nerfing a top tier class can be gotten away with. Savagely nerfing a low tier class and giving them nothing whatsoever in return is how you lose the playerbase’s trust, and that is exactly what they just did. We’re supposed to trust them to make it right when they couldn’t be bothered to worry about balance before they swung the nerf bat? And after they had the guts to follow up with “It’s not a nerf, it was that way for 20 years by accident bro”?
I agree with you. If they get nerfed like this by fixing this bug then they should be buffed back to where they were before. IDK how easy that will be to do though.
Your right a weaker class does not need a huge nerf like this, but bugs should not stay just because it made druids better.
I mean if they quadruple fury damage, make it uninterruptible and make Fury have twice the weapon range I guess it could be ok, otherwise the nerf is gigantic.
It isn’t a “bug” when it isn’t causing problems. Shapechangers were already low tier. They “fixed” a problem that existed only in their minds and as a result gutted an entire skill tree. Had they done something to make up for the nerf it would be different, but they didn’t. They just went “Sorry bro, we’re removing 60% of your melee damage because you were always supposed to be F tier”.
When you nerf a class this hard you give them something in return, and that something better not be “It’s not a nerf LOL” which is all they’ve offered so far.
The only thing that was broken was the IAS calculations, but it was figured out and played fine for the entirety of the game. The different attack frame rates for shapeshifting forms wasn’t broken, it was just inconsistent and not clear in their tool tips, and making it consistent has now broken the whole tree entirely to where it will need massive buffs to see play in it’s current state.
They could reduce or remove the effective frame limit so that stacking IAS can get you back to where we were, but that’s still a Nerf and lowers build diversity because now IAS gear is required to even get back to where the class used to be with just weapon IAS.
Or they could massively increase the damage and make their attacks uninterruptible, but even if they get the damage back to where it was it would still be a Nerf because you won’t be able to proc things like crushing blow or lifetap as quickly or as often as before.
It’s just a completely unnecessary Nerf that nobody asked for on a class that already is one of the least played and least powerful in the game.
Yeah, but instead Paladin and Sorc just get stronger haha.
They MIGHT be able to make it work in it’s current form, but they’ll have to give big base IAS buffs to both bear and wolf forms, as well as damage buffs and bonus AR or uninterrupted to their skills.
Or they could just backtrack on the “consistency at the cost of the whole skill tree” idea that’s currently going on, and give wolf and bear their old attack rates back.
That wont work either though. Werewolf HAS a big IAS buff, that’s one of the reasons why only weapon IAS mattered, because you max out at 75% on the werewolf. There is a hard coded limit in the game to how fast you can get from a particular base speed. going to a 19 or 23 frame base attack on human druids (who were supposed to be bad at melee compared to other classes, since shapeshift was their melee ‘tree’) means you cant speed it up past a certain point without changing the basic formula used by D2 for frame calculation.
Yeah, so they’d have to reduce or remove that hard IAS limit for Druid as well, which would be inconsistent with every other class, and if you’re going to be inconsistent you might as well just go back to the original frame rates for wolf/bear.
They are basing their decisions on what is more fun for a group of 10 noobies running to den of evil for first time ever.
My suggestion to keep their nooby love affair going while not ruining the endgame viability is just make fury uninterruptible and give human druids a better attack speed base.
This still really is not cool but at least the class would work for gm duels. It would basically just be a low defense high life version of a zealot. I prefer the “quirky” stuff and I think that is what made the build unique and cool.
Just read Blizzards response to this Shapeshift attack speed change debate.
If this change indeed made a weapon like the Cranium Basher more viable(faster) than it was before, then I welcome this change with open arms and wet passionate kisses.
This change makes all weapons equally un-viable for shapeshifters. The 9-10 frame cap on attack speeds it creates means Fury will be interrupted constantly and it is physically impossible for a fury druid to kill an Uber even with BIS gear. They simply attack too slowly to stay alive now, as werewolves rely on life steal to stay alive.
Werewolf druids have always been agonizingly un-fun to level until they get Fury. This change makes Fury far worse and will result in even fewer people playing werewolves or werebears. They set their sights squarely on a a low tier melee skill tree and gutted it into uselessness.
Let me get this straight. With myriad bugs in the game right now…and one of them being directly tied to wereform shifting through items (Beast and Wolfhowl), you choose to nerf Druids? I’m talking about being unable to attack in wereform if you’re DUAL-WIELDING (Barb and Assassin).
So we have this bug that has existed since launch and now Druids get the shaft.
How about other classes who shift with Beast? Are they on the original wereform IAS table? Has anyone tested speeds with other classes? I did test Barb when testing out dual-wielding, which of course failed, but then tried single-wield Azurewrath with 65% off-hand IAS, which should grant me a 6fpa attack. Nope, feels way slower.
Funnily enough, I attack faster without a weapon on my barb in werebear form, which in theory should be 10fpa…than wielding a phase blade with 30IAS (Azurewrath) + 65% off-hand IAS which should be 6fpa (as mentioned above).
Due to these changes with weapons and wereforms, a 10fpa barehanded attack attacks faster than a 6fpa weapon attack…wow