Update: Whirlwind breakpoints for all single-wielding (1H and 2H) weapons

General Discussion
1

The post is updated to reflect latest known info.

Whirlwind speed for barbarian is split into 2 categories - all 2-handed weapons except swords (slow); and all 1-handed weapons + 2-handed swords (fast).

Since 2.4.3, all non-weapon gear, skills with attack speed and slow effects affect whirlwind attack speed.

Here’s the table of ITEM IAS. The numbers at the top of the table are weapon base speeds (you can find them on the Arreat Summit).

| ------All 2H except swords ----| ------ All 1H and 2H Swords -------|

FPA 20 10 0 -10 -20 20 10 5 0 -10 -20 -30
14
13
12
11 0
10 4 0
9 13 2 0
8 26 13 2 0 0
7 46 29 15 4 0 9 0 0 0
6 83 58 39 23 10 26 13 7 2 0
5 174 125 89 63 42 54 35 27 20 8 0 0
4 125 89 75 63 42 26 13

You can find the old values on the wiki https://diablo2.diablowiki.net/Whirlwind

As you can see, 4 FPA for 2-handed weapons (except swords!) is no longer available.

Here’s also the table of “raw” (or “effective”) IAS breakpoints. I.e. without diminishing returns of the IAS from the gear:

FPA 2H except sword All 1H & 2H Swords
11 -24* -42*
10 -17 -37*
9 -9 -30*
8 1 -22*
7 13 -12
6 29 1
5 51 17
4 N/A 41

( * ) require being somehow slowed; haven’t been tested, only derived through a formula

For reference, the formula to convert “gear” IAS into “raw\effective” IAS is:
[120 * IAS/(120+IAS)]
Where square brackets mean round down. E.g. 50 IAS from gear:
[50 * 120/(50+120)] = 35
After this you just add the skill IAS to it (e.g. fanaticism, exactly the number on the tooltip, e.g. 33 at level 15) and subtract the weapon speed (e.g. 10 for ogre maul) for the resulting IAS of 35+33-10 = 58.

Let’s also mention the so called “free hit checks” that were present in legacy and then disappeared in D2R. In 2.4.3 you get 1 free hit check at 4th frame after starting the whirlwind. After that hit checks happen strictly at the frame intervals.
Ultra short spins with slow weapons can give you a higher attack rate. E.g. I was able to use a pike (20) without any IAS items and get attack intervals of about 8 FPA (instead of 11 if I just spin normally). But ofcourse there is the downside of very quickly draining your mana.

Finally, here is the speed calculation formula. I have tested it quite rigorously, but still pending to test it on the assassin.

Whrilwind_FPA = [256 * A1_Action_Length / [256 * Speed_Multiplier]]

Where:

[ x ] means rounding down

A1_Action_Length (also known as “Basic Attack Action Frames”) is the number of frames for the stardard attack for the character class and weapon before the attack connects. This is what blizzard were referencing in the patch notes! On barbarian it is 7 for 1-handed weapons and 2-handed swords; 9 for everything else. On the assassin with katars it is 6.

Speed_Multiplier is the effective IAS from all sources: Diminished_Gear_IAS + Skill_IAS - Slowing_Debuffs

Diminished_Gear_IAS - already mentioned in the article, reiterating: [120 * IAS / (120 + IAS)]

24 Likes
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thank you , for all the time you work on this , so much appreciated

(still a shame blizzard hide the number ) and dont update everything on this mess

this is pretty bad because the time you go make some mf you need to change your gear same for pvp mean with slower or other weapon you are screw and stuck with your ias gear

mean only 1 option is good . to have the option too change your gear without any problem is phase blade Grief and maybe a -10 weapon

rune word is again Grief no 1

and two hand is dead thank you diablo 3 team dev :-1: :-1: :-1: the class have less option and more limited everything diablo 2 is not suppose to be

3

Sweet, thanks for researching this. Glad to see they kept the 2H sword “speed bonus”, I was interested in trying out an eth Death Colossus Sword since WW will prevent the Glacial Spike from shattering stuff.

4

I have seen this and damn for the first time in history of d2 i am actualy interested in trying WW lol.

2 Likes
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Great work as always! Just wondering what’s the breakpoints for C Blade (WSM=5) as it is one of the most commonly used bases for Grief?

Thanks!

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yep all you have too show is dual wield Grief with frenzy so noob and basic

all other build dead

now your ww build is so limited because he depend of frenzy
fake hype your character is stuck with this set and can not change gear because is ias on is gear

1 Like
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easy to calculate from the 2nd table and the effective IAS formula. The effective formula flips into this:

Item_IAS = ⌈120/(120/Effective_IAS-1)⌉

The sword it starts at 7 FPA (-5), you need 6-22-46 effective IAS for 6-5-4 frame intervals, which, if plugged into the formula, yields 7-27-75.

i am not sure how 2-wielding works yet, but my current theory is that it just does both hits at the same time (cuz i didn’t gear hits coming faster than every 160 miliseconds when equipping 2xPhase blade with a lot of IAS). Frenzy is redundant for dual grief.

8

why u ignore me

whirlwind breakpoints have always been split into two categories, 1 handed and 2 handed. this is simply because the FPD constant used by all one handed weapons are the same and the FPD constant for all two handed weapons are the same for barbarian. except two handed swords, which is different than both, but in the case of whirlwind two handed swords are on the one handed breakpoint table (since barb can one hand them) regardless if one or two hands are used to equip it.

the second free hit check was removed, you only have 1 free hit check now.

dual wield works by making the calculation for each weapon independently, averaging the frame length they come out to (round up), and then have both weapons use that frame rate.

9

So can we now call the “fix” by it’s real name ?

WW GOT NERFED:

  1. suceptible to slow effects
  2. 2h lowered max fpa from 4 to 5, meaning about 20% damage nerf
  3. 2h weps that reached the previous max 4fpa now require additional ias to reach a max of 5fpa

Ppl need to stop calling this bs as a “buff”

11 Likes
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what i`m trying to say , now ww will be link to frenzy making other build less valuable , on the top of two hand already dead , i understand the buff for ww frenzy but too the price or detriment of killing 2 hand barb and other ww build

is the same too trash talk your co-worker to have a promotion :slight_smile: you kill something to push a other think , mean in the end only 1 build will be valuble and everyone will play the same dump build

diablo 2 is not about choice anymore

11

in my opinion it got buffed too. You get a WW at level 30, pick up a random pike from halbu and tell us how it works out. My bet it’s gonna be actually quite playable

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WW GOT BUFFED:

  1. obtains benefit from frenzy and fanaticism
  2. early game damage scaling improved
  3. all FPAs increased across the board at baseline values

don’t make things up, its a buff in some cases, a nerf in other cases. two handed just got the short end of the stick and needs additional buffs.

1 Like
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i’d just say - IK set got nerfed. That’s it :smiling_face_with_tear:

i am not crying my eyes are just sweating

14

How is it a buff when You deal less hits pero sec and your EBOTD now requieres extra IAs ?

Ww Got normalized by increasing the average at the cost of decreasing the max!

Thats NOT a buff , the leveling may be a qol at Best , the numbers You provide are lesser or more expensive , wich by definition is a nerf

6 Likes
15

is a buff if you willing to be some type of hybrid using frenzy

the game allow you to be a pure frenzy build or be some hybrid Whirlwind

to be a pure Whirlwind build you will need fast 1hand weapon -10 or -30 with Grief

or you will have issue for changing your gear or be very under power using 2 hand , very bad in my opinion no valuable choice

(frenzy the invisible synergies) now you depend of frenzy for Whirlwind

16

  1. emm i Guess spear and polearm barbs can frenzy with their chosen spec… o wait … and why would i need to spend points into frenzy as ww when i never needed to?

  2. numbers we’re spread out , thats neither a buff or a nerf . QOL wich o agreed with

  3. base values at the cost of max . Thats like giving access to a thing to every one BUT in the case of 2 handers your “Ferrari 2hander” wich could go 300 Miles per hour (4fpa) no longer can…

  • Being affected by slows is HUGE do not try to make it something small

** YES 2h Got the short stick . It Got kicked in the face . And it was already WEAK to begin with !

*** This forced Even more for sword barbs… dafuq why don’t we delete all other masteries While we are at ir?

4 Likes
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frenzy or not spear and polearm are dead you can not hit 4 frame ww ,you are stuck too 5 frame mean a huge dps drop also more dps lost because the ias requirements mean np ed gear fortitude or other gear option ,

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I’m making a 2h WW barb with goal of using Obedience Ghost Spear (0), if I am reading right I will only need 40ias (LoH+Highlords) to reach 6FPA? Doesn’t seem too bad. Idk though, WW barb has never been my strong suit I just wanna have some fun with HugeHelicopter

1 Like
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sry but this is very very low dps too the point this dont really make sense , save your rune , if you want i think too have some unique Spear i will give you free

20

yes you need 39 for 6 - and despite what charley says it’s going to be an OK DPS if the rest of your build is good.

1 Like