While we’re talking about curses, enemies shouldn’t have Decrepify, because it’s obtusely punishing for melee/IAS builds. Frozen aura enemies are the same type of problem; “cannot be frozen” but I’m still blue and slow, neat. Effects in this game that nuke IAS, without any way to counter it, need to stripped off of enemies. It just makes melee builds that much worse at the game.
or we could make these affect fcr too
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There’s a difference bewteen things that make the game more dangerous for your character and things that make it more obnoxious. FCR and IAS breakpoints are already a massive pain to optimize, effects that dump all over that make the game tedious rather than challenging.
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I am not convinced it’s healthy to base this kind of change on “efficient players”.
Having this kind of permanency for shrines alters fundamentally the gameplay for everyone, whether it is players that take their time that now get to systematically fight everything with the optimal shrine buff for the build, or players that try to rush that now have to play around keeping a strong buff active at all times during runs, and possibly players being kicked for not entering games with an active buff.
I disagree when it comes to the monsters that cast this spell when in melee, as you can easily avoid it through normal gameplay.
It is very annoying in the Throne of Destruction, though, as Baal just casts it whenever you get into his range, that is to say every time you engage the mobs as a melee character.
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I don’t even bother clicking shrine anymore 
Like 1/2 elite in hell are curse and even worst in WSK and sanc … x)
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And the copycat continues his work
Next time properly copy my topic and realize that current shrines need love before adding new ones… you are doing the same bad design that blizzard does by adding new runewords instead of fixing existing itemization
does it?
i desagree
there are two ways to improve challenge in this game
- pumping numbers up
- adding challenging mechanics
for example, we could just pump up meph numbers to see if his fight gets more interesting even with “moat trick”
or we can give him teleport, improve his IA, so he can teleport behind the player and shotgun our a$$ with charged bolts
i prefer the 2nd option
but if you dont do any and just keep removing “annoying” mechanics you just gonna end up with a shallow game
3 games are nothing to “efficient players”
and we can ask everyone here how much time they spend farming the same game and how much farming repeatedly the same run
i think we gonna know what the overwhelming majority does when playing d2r
i can start, unless im lvling a char, 0
as i said, shrines already last for 3 min, making them not go away with a curse would be nice but it wouldnt change anything for those who do thousands of runs
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Lowering IAS as a debuff that can’t be countered, curse resistance barely exists in this game, makes the game tedious, not more challenging. In general, lowering players damage isn’t engaging for players; you don’t have to look any further than immunities to see that taken to an extreme. Their risk of death hasn’t increased, but their efficiency has been tanked. It’s just poor game design to have debuffs that players cannot counteract, it’s even worse game design when it only affects one type of build and is irrelevant to another, such as Decrepify. The most reasonable thing that an IAS build can do if they’ve been hit by decrep is to portal to town and cure it, then attempt to snipe the enemy casting it before it goes out again. It’s not challenging, it’s tedious.
Same thing is true for effects that lower FRW. These aren’t exciting mechanics.
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I am not pushing against the idea of not having shrine buffs removed by curses, but against the idea of having shrine buffs last multiple games.
If you keep current durations, the utility, even for fast players, of keeping it active between games, is marginal.
If you increase durations, you massively increase the power of shrines.
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Most of the buff shrines don’t really matter. Combat and Defense shrines are nice, but none of the resistance shrines are anything to plan into your build; mana regen quickly becomes irrelevant as well. The only valuable shrine ends up being the experience shrine.
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i agree with this
but trivializing curses and mobs in consequence is not the way to fix this problem
we need more challenging mechanics and more ways to counter them
buff and debuff is one of the pillars of rpg gender
if you just dont like them…i dont know what to say
thats the point, no, it doesnt
at least for the majority
3 min is already a game’s duration, making it last more than that makes no difference for someone doing 3 min, seal pop CS runs, TZs, any key and etc
All of the damage amp curses (weaken, lower res, etc) are still extremely scary for players.
So is counterplay. Even poison has antidote pots. No such curse dispelling potion exists. Again, I’m not saying to remove debuffs, I’m saying that debuffs which make the game boring rather than challenging, and have no counterplay available to players, make the game worse.
14 more characters
That’s why current shrines need rework before adding new ones like op does
Perpetuating blizzard’s runeword tendency of adding more to a pool of garbage
Melee love
Especially for melee builds
those are examples that have conterplay
you can just stack more res against LR and use dracul’s and life tap takes aways any fear you can have of amp, fanat
weaken is meaningless and should be made more dangerous, the same for IM
ok, you find them boring, i find them great
i agree that we lack counters
i desagree that we should remove debuffs just bc we lack counters to them
if anything, we should be asking for more counters
It’s great when your character moves and attacks more slowly with absolutely no counterplay aside from porting back to town to talk to healer NPC? Like what? That’s not engaging, that’s not challenging, that’s only tedious.
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nothing is more tedious than an easier game
anyway, cold already has a counter, CBF
the problem is how holy freeze is coded
it doesnt target the player but the area around the enchanted mob and CBF only works against cold that targets the player
they just have to make CBF work against aura effects, it makes no sense to not
for decrep, i agree, we need new ways to counter it
Yeah sure. But now shrines don’t remove curses and curses stack
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Sounds like a good trade off to me.
It’s like you want to miss the point. The countermeasure to decrepify is to stop playing the game, go back to town, clear it, and then continue playing the game. Trying to conflate combatting this effect with “making the game easier” is asinine and irrelevant. If debuffs are going to be a mainstay for specific types of enemies, then counterplay must exist for it.
There is currently no counterplay for decrepify, or for curses in general outside of some setup for a Salvation aura, even then it’s just a reduced duration. Unlike other curses, instead of making the player just take more damage, it also wastes the player’s time by literally slowing them down in terms of both movement speed and attack speed. Cannot be Frozen is an extremely valuable affix for melee because it prevents this effect from cold damage, and the effect renders a melee build virtually unplayable. It’s a bridge too far to call this engaging game mechanics. The cherry on top is that casters do not ever have to care about frozen or decrepify because it does nothing to slow them down.
It’s a bad effect.
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