I think multishot needs more damage, the 3/4 damage cap disbalance it from other multiple target skills
Flagged as spam as all youâre doing is bumping your post and not saying anything new.
Please post a video showcasing your concerns. I am 100% confident the problem is with your play style or your lack of knowledge of bowazons.
no buff required as amazon is already incredibly powerful in 1v1 and team pvp in the hands of a skilled player and for pvm jav zon was already the highest dps char in the game.
Honestly Theirs not much to say other than multishot needs more damage. Its a no brainer, some of these videos with WF and budget gear or shall I say some of them are still hard to self find. The video does not kill it quick enough for other toons using similar gear in that bracket.
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What you propose here ia going to make the amazon even more broken. Stop with the massive buffs plz.
Please, guys, be more respectful of the opinions of others, I have all the right to express myself and I donât have to put up with harassment or threats of this kind.
You can express yourself in my posts, of course, but respect that I answer giving my opinion and do not threaten others if your opinion is different
Respect is the most important thing in a forum. As a human being, I also make mistakes, but when I do, I try to correct them and be better next time.
This is a game, a game that makes us happy, do not persecute people who think differently about aspects of the game, simply enjoy the game and let other persons enjoy it being respectful
Oh⌠so when people are disagreeing with you and say things like:
blizzard donât listen these advices, make the game more fun for everyone, also for people that like to play pvm with multishot like in 1.09, it was so nice and now is not possible.
âŚTHATâs ok? THAT to you is⌠respectful?
Also, you make repeated posts about the same topic:
1 [Please blizzard solve Bul-Kathos set problem and improve amazon bow skills issues in 2.4 patch]
2 [Missing important amazon changes in 2.4 PTR]
3 [Missing important amazon changes in 2.4 release notes]
And then whenever the thread gets quiet and slides down the page, you bump your post up to the top again saying something like âplease blizzard, solve itâ, which adds nothing to the discussion and only serves to seek more attention.
Donât lecture us about respect.
Onadroig, as I told you, âas a human being, I also make mistakes, but when I do, I try to correct them and be better next timeâ
When you wrote, some days ago, that âdonât listen these advicesâ was disrespectful, I instantly edited my text removing it, because you are on true, it was disrespectful and I dont wanna be disrespectful.
Now I ask you to stop harassing me and pursuing my posts, let stop this now, I have my opinion, and I have right of have a different opinion, this is just a game. Just respect please.
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I wasnât aware you did that. Itâs normally customary as part of respectful behaviour to apologise or concede thereafter to allow that acknowledgement to happen. AnywayâŚ
I wouldnât call what Iâve been posting as harassment, but more pointing out your behaviour in public. Iâll take your latest post as acknowledgement that youâre aware of your actions now so Iâll stop here.
However for future reference, having opinions is not what I have a problem with. Itâs repeating your opinions in the face of people disagreeing with you doesnât really make for a good discussion.
I believe Iâve asked if you are able to provide some videos demonstrating the unviability of the bowazon to support your opinion, I donât suppose you have prepared this yet?
Meanwhile I have prepared a number of videos, one of which is a budget bowazon clearing hell cows without struggle, both in 2.3 and PTR 2.4 versions. Thereâs also been others that have posted their own videos demonstrating their own runs.
I dunno, maybe those are like the workhorse builds. They would be used by people who actually pvm because they need the items (e.g. pvpers), not just by people who pvm for the sake of pvming itself. They are also not necessarily easymode chars for the game. Javas were nerfed anyway because LF now doesnât synergise CS, which is a significant nerf at the mid-levels. Newbies will also die a lot at immunes. Sorcs are the most squishy in the game, so newbies will also die a lot with those, especially at immunes. Hdins may actually be ezmode for newbs playing untwinked, but theyâre boring lol. A lot of games have a beginner mode that is super easy, so maybe hammerdins are that ez mode, albeit probably the most boring build in the game. Untwinked play is probably only a small part of the game. After that you want to look for something that is efficient. Like you can start off as a zealer and then reset your stats/skills as a hdin. May be necessary to have builds that are suitable for grinding, such as javas, sorcs and hdin. Then you also have to ask what part of the player base u wanna cater to because a lot of them may be people who played the game before and just want to play a hammerdin/sorc/java again. Donât really need to nerf those, imo. Endgame hdin doesnât need nerf, maybe just the early to mid-game progression for hdin, and if you think they are too OP in the questing phase just nerf the early/mid-game progression, but if you actually grinded for enigma or w/e then you should have those sorts of clear speeds in the endgame that hdins currently have. If you looked at any RPG, you would just see that in every game you would only have to spend a few hours levelling to max upon reaching the endgame and then you are 1-shotting everything, no exceptions to this, so in comparison if you looked at the time it would take to acquire enigma, this gameâs cookie cutters are not really that OP. In some ways the old players are just spoiling the game for the new players, because they just tell the new players how to play, using the most efficient methods that border on boring. If they didnât tell the noobs how to play, they wouldnât even know to use hammers along with concentration = game challenge not ruined.
Stormshield+Doom already more than fully negate a zon. Or even if you took it that BM items donât exist, just a plain Stormshield negates a zon anyway. In team pvp the rules donât let you use: maxblock, bone prison, holy freeze and decrepify. So you gotta ask whether itâs the balance or itâs the âGMâ rules that is the problem.
Javazons and bowazons have nothing to do with each other in pvm. They are completely separate chars. Attempting to hybridise only weakens ur own char, so you wonât see people attempting to hybridise it (havenât taken a look at how phys bowa+plague hybrid will play out, but Iâd assume itâs not that relevant to meta because full lightning is probably more effective. Prolly full lightning and a few points in fend+impale, lightning+plague java or cold+phys bowa would be more effective than any bow+jav hybrid, but I havenât really looked into it in detail, but the point is that the bow tree is not OP for pvm so there is room for buffing the bow skills without augmenting the real OP subclass, which would be the javzon). That means buffing or nerfing any does not affect the other for pvm.
I will just point out briefly in the rest of this comment why only BM pvp has relevance to pvp balance, and why GM pvp has none, so that we can get this out of the way and not have to waste anymore time on this: you cannot listen to a word of any suggestion on pvp balance that is coming from anywhere other than a standpoint of pure BM pvp, and you canât listen to a word of any suggestion on pvp balance that is coming from a standpoint of GM pvp or that is even partially related to GM pvp.
GM pvp is a separate game from the game itself. It was just some game designed from/out of the game itself. To illustrate, Warcraft is to Dota what this game is to GM pvp. The WC devs had nothing to do with Dota, and it is not their business adjusting WC ladder such that Dota is balanced. GM pvp is just something that turns the game into something it was not intended for. It is largely irrelevant to the game and unrealistic. People donât GM pvp because you have to remove a bunch of items every time you pvp, sometimes alter your skill allocation because the passive bonuses from some skills are deemed âBMâ, then you have to read and remember a bunch of rules, and then sometimes you wonât be able to check whether the other person is breaking the rules or not, and you also wonât know whether the other person is going to BM you or not (only a small % play according to the GM rules). Itâs not really a valid game mode because so much actual content is excluded from it. In attempting to turn what is only a pk game into some sort of illusory GM pvp game, people eventually boxed themselves into a tiny box to achieve this illusory âbalanceâ, and got everybody else to do the same (but thereâs not THAT many people in GM pvp). The devs only intended for there to be pking, not GM pvp. GM pvp doesnât actually exist to them, and it is entirely an illusion created by . It was never actually about creating even conditions for pvp, but it was only about putting more things there to kill your char (this was mentioned by the devs themselves). It was about getting players to kill you as well, not just having monsters kill you. The game design is a chaotic and dynamic class hierarchy/class dynamic (course this design is obviously not good for pvp, but this is a pvm game), but in attempting to turn it into something more static, pvpers basically threw out a ton of things that make the game what it is, and even then you could hardly get GM pvp to fly among most people, so honestly you could say that GM pvp is hardly pvp at all. Only BM pvp qualifies as pvp, whether it is balanced or not, but GM pvp is not something you can market in that many ways. If you are to make any balance considerations regarding pvp at all, it must be based on BM pvp, NOT GM pvp. GM pvp is not accessible, relevant or practical enough to count anyway, and itâs not actually that popular. Listening to most people re: pvp will get you nowhere, because most of what they are saying is based on a mix of GM and BM pvp, and some of it is based purely on GM pvp, and it is just a COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME balancing the game based on either of those. They wonât be giving you any relevant info other than on issues about game mechanics (definitely not on game balance issues). The only way to make pvp mainstream viable, is to balance it based on the BM game (worth the time IMO). Listening to GM pvpers will kill pvp itself, in addition to killing pvm. (It will basically just make the game more complicated and worse, but without solving anything. Also if GM pvpers are not happy about something they will just change their own GM rules to fit w/e it is they want the game to be, and they will be able to adjust their GM rules for that purpose better and more easily than any dev can balance the game for that purpose, so that means you wonât even be helping them by listening to them.)
I will point out the real reason why you see people complain about zons being âOPâ. It is because they want to be able to use OP spirit in team vs team games, and they want to be able to use full vita setups and spirit in 1v1 with zons (or some of the dedicated long-term pvpers have posted vids of them using vita setups to 1v2 zons, just to give you an idea how much of a boost zons require). Meaning that if they use a deliberate no block no dr setup and go up against a zon, and then get killed, they will start to say zons are OP. Most reasonably well-rounded chars have a MB/DR setup (and they use it), and also have a lot of other options such as Holy Freeze, Slow Target, Decrepify etc, so it is gonna be bad for the game if you listen to suggestions from people that insist on not making well-rounded chars but want to pvp. Balance is always based on the most effective options available, so that means it must be considered based on all perfect BiS gear, max level, and the most OP strats that people will use (pvpers generally will have setups using all 5-6 point items etc within a few months, so itâs not just some hypothetical scenario. You donât have to factor in setups that are incomplete or non-optimal, because at those stages balance is in a state of flux, and does not need to be fixed), and not considered based on deliberately gimped or subpar strats. That means GM pvp is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT to any talk about balance. If people are at equal or favourable odds against bowas using no block/no dr, and using block/dr means an 87.5% damage reduction, what that really means is that the DPS output of bowas should be increased by up to 8x (of course itâs not that cut and dried in reality, but you get an idea of the sort of numbers you should be looking at), and this is not even counting all the other OP stuff used against bowas that most non-IAS based chars and teleport based chars are not effected by. I know the game is balanced around pvm, but point here is that there is usually no point taking up any recommendations that are based on GM pvp, or partially based on it. Bringing zons up to speed likely isnât going to shift the meta. At most people will be using ss in team vs team instead of spirit, but the overall game would remain mostly unchanged and it will mostly be hdins/necros/druids spamming attacks at each other. The goalposts in GM pvp are being shifted all the time. The GM rules will be revised so it will just be balanced, anyway!
Just to comment more on the solution to balancing pvp (Iâve written more than I had planned to, but this paragraph is just to illustrate why balancing the pvp game is about canceling out the GM rules, and not about balancing the game according to GM rules, and why it makes absolutely no sense to balance the pvp game based on the current GM game), the solution could be rather simple: as the presence of GM rules are an indicator of inherent class imbalances, the solution to balancing it would be to make adjustments such that it would let GMâers delete as many of the rules as possible by going down the list and eliminating each of those imbalances, NOT adjusting the game to fit the current GM rules. The GM rules were a complication spawned off the lack of class balance in pvp to begin with, so balancing the game to fit the GM status quo would only be attacking the symptoms but not the problems, meaning the problems will never get solved but will get worse. The main problem to balancing the pvp game would be uneven damage mitigation across damage types, so for example physical damage gets mitigated to 1/8 with MB/DR, magic damage gets almost no mitigation, while elemental damage gets mitigated to 1/100 with +max resists and % absorb. My opinion is that it is fine as it is, and only physical or magic dmg dealers would be able to join pvps, although maxed cold mastery cold sorcs may be able to join bm pvp because sometimes it takes too many gear compromises to counter them resulting in the whole team being easy kills. My take is that BM pvp is already mostly balanced for team vs team (as in auto-balancing, just like MTG, because of large multitude of viable combinations none of which are too OP. Mostly balanced, and at worst a rock, scissors paper game, but it makes for good pvp), and you can put any combination of most of the popular builds from any class on a team and it would usually be fairly competitive, but in individual pvp most builds are too easily countered. So team pvp is mostly viable from the get-go for any form of pvp, GM or BM, but attempting to balance the game for individual pvps was never anything other than opening another can of worms. The game is fine with only the former IMO. The latter is not even possible outside of a strict, rigid regimen of GM rules, and it is something you try in your own time if you can be bothered to adjust your gear/stats, but IMO it is just a waste of time, a waste of items and a waste of stat points, on something that is irrelevant and that excludes most of the actual game. The point of this paragraph is that if you want to balance the game for pvp in any way it need not and should not be according to any standard other than BM pvp, and that it would be irrelevant, superfluous, unneeded and counter-productive to balance it according to any GM pvp recommendations. GM rules are a crutch that we donât need to and should not remain dependent on, and we obviously also wouldnât want to become even more dependent on them. I should also add that I wish they would facilitate and incentivise open pking, because thereâs honestly not much left to do in the game after decades of perfecting and tweaking pvm meta. Again, thereâs no place for GM, ordered pvp there. Diablo games should look like CS or Valorant (or like Super Mario Kart), NOT like Super Mario, because we all already know that within a few days of beating Hell Baal and grinding, all monsters in the game will start to become irrelevancies, or tiny obstacles at the most.
Ty for listening to my TED talk. Lol
nice ted talk sir, well, i hope blizzard will listen us
make unique quiversâŚâ
that is a nice idea too