Sunder Charm’s: A Negative Impact on D2R

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#20

i think the way they adressed fire build wasnt bad, maybe just remove some fire immunities in favor of magic immunes would balance it all out

plague runeword on act 5 does a good job for budget immunity breaking option for now i think

i agree with grumpykiten"s post just over me, those changes were rushed; most people that actually want the change seem to be casuals that only roll their only character and wish their own unique build was more efficient. There are other ways to adress that problem than by shuffling all the meta cards into a big mess

we really just need some more magic immunes instead of fire immunes, easy fix.

2 Likes
#21

That I agree! I don’t say they should stay in current form for sure. I think there is at least few things to address in first place as you mentioned:

  1. cold mastery
  2. physical charm is a joke
  3. “pets” are not affected which is bad

On those so many people are complaining that I am pretty sure they will work on above 3. Those complaints are showing in every single post.

But hey, what I am saying is that I am happy that they are addressing immunities that were closing doors for a lot of builds to enjoy full game :slight_smile:

P.S. What about thaw/antidote potions? I didn’t get that one.

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#22

Thaw and antidote potions give a huge boost to cold and poison resistance, which you can chug multiple and stack the duration - negating the negative effect of minus resistance on charms.

Just an example of the lack of thought put into the charms. It’s clear whoever developed these charms didn’t understand or take the time to consider the nuance of the game.

If they try to nerf those potions, they’ve essentially introduced a mechanic where they need to balance the entire existing game around it… and forever to come.

4 Likes
#23

you will build other builds for the game play change. not cause of a poorly designed mechanic. every time some says this i want to ask why do you play a cold sorceress when a lightning sorceress, a javazon or hammerdin can farm everywhere. by your logic no one would be playing any other build. immunities are no choice creating they are choice limiting. and I am not a noob i have been play diablo 2 since the game came out and I’ll let you know there has always been best builds but it was immunities that killed the most builds in the game.

#24

immunities make you think. the complexity of the game makes you think.
immunities force other builds
if you enter these charms, 1. you don’t have to think anymore. 2. there is a cold sorcerer that destroys everything and does not get hit. no more need for other builds.
don’t need any more stuff
it’s not d2 anymore, it’s idle-game

7 Likes
#25

i agree with you a 100%

they are turning this game into d3

5 Likes
#26

And what Immunity is ruining the physical melee builds? All melee build classes have a backup skill that does some elemental/magic damage and can clear the few immune monsters they encounter. No vital bosses are Immune to Physical.

Physical melee is dead because right now it requires too much clicking, itemization effort, skill, AR, resistances, and has slow clear speed and too high a risk of death.

Speaking of that, the Bone Break charm is a complete failure. It needs BIG rework. It needs to ADD Physical res. to the character instead of reducing it in order for its value to be on par with the caster’s.
Better on, add a small Cleave to it…

#27

All these charms do is break immunity’s, cold sorc already benefits from cold mastery on all but immunes now as the game sits now the immunes can be effected too really game breaking no. What breaks the game is not being able to damage mobs or sacrificing DPS /expecting bad AI followers to make up the difference the charms fix this issue.

I agree traps and minions and melee needs love hell melee is the reason we could not get higher density in mob count so they are well aware of melee issues. Considering it takes sometimes 1000s of runs to find even a decent item working a way to kill more mobs with more toons is a win win.

#28

From the perspective of a new player
Immunities make you go online and read build guides or quit not think. Cause they have already thought out how they want to play their character and now all of the sudden their skills are useless. The complexity of the this game is obtuse and immunities just make it worse. Examples try explaining to a new player why the 20% fcr does nothing cause their amazon already has 70% fcr from other items. So you read mechanics reseach is not thinking. The only one I agree with is immunities force other builds but it is better to say immunities force certain builds.

No these charms make you think differently. If my sorceress has the fire one drop I may decide to see what fire builds are fun or if I want to play a cold sorceress I now have a gear piece to target just like the lightning sorceress and infinity.

I actually agree they need to tweak cold mastery because of the speed she can kill. but my retort is My zooamancer never gets hit and can farm all content and never gets hit unless a mess up. most lightning sorceresses never get hit and kill all the enemies in one click. I don’t think how cold mastery works with sunder charms is good but it is not like we don’t already have builds that are doing close to the same without them.

1 Like
#29

Why its always “the sorc”, “my sorc” on these forums? Where is the other 6 classes?

#30

Frankly that’s another problem with these charms. They are really, really, focused on the Sorceress. No other class benefits as much, except maybe Paladins and the Fire Druid.

Certainly, doesn’t help Physical damage dealing builds.

1 Like
#31

ok these also help elemental bowazons alot too, or fire druids, or poison necromancers. there we have 4 classes being helped.

#32

I agree they need to be tweaked to be more useful for physical. but the reason these help the sorceress most is she is the only class that has no non elemental skills so anything that breaks immunities that were previously unbreakable will effect the class that depended the most on single element damage.

#33

True, and I don’t disagree that the Sorceress needed help to circumvent Immunities, but these charms where not the way to do it.

Allow Cold Mastery to break Immunities. Reorganize synergies so that a hybrid Nova/Frost Nova build is viable. Add physical damage to Meteor. Add a mechanic to Inferno to break fire Immunities. There are so many better and more interesting ways to do this.

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#34

thats where I disagree this is good solution cause all the ideas there wont help the fire bowazon or druid. now as i have said before the interaction between this and cold mastery is problematic but they are so useful and not really broken with all kinds of other builds. the problem with what lots of people on here are sudgesting is a throwing the baby out with the bath water moment. cause one build is going to be OP and lets be honest even though it is going to be better than it is not going to be that much more powerful then existing top tier builds like the Hammerdin, Lighning sorceress pr javazon. Blizzard should completly abandon this idea.

#35

Then other changes should be made to help the Druid and Bowazon. Although I don’t think the Druid is in a very bad place due to the physical damage. Although a reordering of the synergies would help the Fire Druid quite a bit in allowing for different builds. I’d probably rearrange them so that Firestorm and Fissure are each others only synergies so a pure fire damage build is 40 points, while Molten Boulder/Volcano/Armageddon are each others synergies so that a Fire/Physical build is 60 points. Might take some thought to make it a little more complicated, but that’s what I’d be leaning towards.

For the Bowazon I’d have to think about the specifics. But for general purposes, a Fire/Frost Maiden ought to have a viable Magic Arrow as a viable way to deal with Fire/Cold Immunes.

Multiple shot should have Fire and Cold arrow as synergies adding fire and cold damage respectively to Multiple shot so that you could build a dual Fire/Cold build that isn’t as high a damage as focusing on one branch but is able to have cold/fire/physical all at decent levels so you can farm anywhere.

I just don’t buy the idea that the game can’t be made sufficiently complex as to allow other builds fun ways to get around Immunities without something as boring and lazy as the Sunder Charms are.

2 Likes
#36

These forums are a negative impact on D2R.

#37

The only true fix to the sunder charm debacle is to make it as rare as putting together an infinity already is.

1 Like
#38

No the fix is to adjust the Cold mastery skill. cause with out things like facets, infinity and other resistance reducing stuff they are kinda garbage and don’t do ennough cause 95% resistance might as well be immune. I tried the hammerdin in PTR the first Sundered Magic immune elite pack took 3 minutes to kill so still not worth farming in zones with them.

#39

Sorry, you dont have any clue or knowledge about sorc. Forget those PTR-chars…they are not endgame.

A Cold-Sorc with -175% Cold Mastery (so -80% overall with sundered against immune mobs) is the same damage as a fire-sorc with +80% resistance (95-15 for example rasha set with -15% res to fire)
→ this is because the damage of Meteor/FB/Ticks is much higher than Blizzard.
==> -175% cold is the same as -15% fire resistance

8-9k Blizz *1,8 is nearly the same as >110k Fire in the same time with -0,8 (so only 20% dmg input)…

So the important think you have to recognize:
the cold-sorc can only go further down with items e.g. infinity to -100%, because this is max for all, BUT the fire sorc can e.g. add infinity and gets instant -85% (on calculation 95-85=+10% and so on)
→ at the end the fire sorc makes incredible more damage than the cold-sorc in endgame

At PTR the fire sorc makes bad damage, you can easily reach 22k FB, 43k Meteor Dmg (with 10k dmg ticks per second)

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