Sunder Charm’s: A Negative Impact on D2R

After reading the PTR Patch notes, and playing a few characters/builds in the PTR, I think the inclusion of Sunder Charm’s will have a negative impact on D2R. Overall, I understand the goal of these new charms, and I do give the game developers props for trying new things with D2R in the PTR. That said, here are my thoughts, and why I think it’s a step in the wrong direction.

Terror Zones:
I think overall Terror Zones are a great addition to D2R, the idea that you can farm for TC87 items in new locations, get more XP, and more an incentive to full clear maps is a great idea. That said, the consensus is that overall, the players wanted more of a challenge in the Terror Zone & the ability to play more characters/builds in these zones.

Sunder Charms:
With the implementation of Terror Zones being an overall positive, the introduction of Sunder Charms basically destroys the Terror Zone End Game. Let me explain in these three bullet points below: Character Builds, Difficulty & Terror Zone Only.

Character Builds:
From the PTR notes, the goal of Sunder Charms is to broaden the character builds so more people will play different things. The issue with this is due to clear speeds of the Sorceress & Paladin, we now have no other reason to play any other builds with Sunder Charms. Before we would build specific builds for different types of runs, now with the Sunder Charms, why build a Trapsin? Why build a Poison Necro? Why build a Wind Druid?

Besides just having “fun” with slower clear speed builds, there is now no benefit to build them.

Difficulty:
Overall the feedback is we wanted more difficulty in the Terror Zones, to make them more “Terror”. With the introduction of these charms, a slightly ok geared character can now clear these areas even easier… the exact opposite if the overall goal. Even with the Level 75 requirement on the charms, there’s way too much power creep for most players a too early.

Terror Zones Only:
I think if we do implement these Sunder Charms it should be only active in Terror Zones. For example, I tested in the PTR a level 85 Blizzard Sorceress with just full Tal Rasha Set & The Cold Rupture Sunder Charm and was able to kill Uber Diablo in seconds… this is completely broken.

That said, if these charms only worked in Terror Zones, then it would keep the rest of the gameplay the same. In my mind, I see this as more like different load outs, for example, if I wanted to do normal runs, I can have my load out one way, but if I wanted to do Terror Zones, I’d swap things out to do Terror Zones. Not too dissimilar when changing things up if you are doing Gold Finding or Magic Finding with a character.

Closing Comments:
Overall I think this is a step in the wrong direction, I don’t mind the idea, but I think there’s a lot of issues with the introduction of Sunder Charms. I feel there’s way too many situations that Sunder Charms introduce power creep, and overall do the exact opposite of their intention.

Last minor comment, I’m also not a fan of the charm skin. I feel like we either keep the skin the exact same (like Gheeds), or we have a drastically different skin. The color shift feels super rushed, and totally out of place with the rest of the items.

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I would seriously quit and never look back if they implement as is. Huge disappointment.

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Yeah if the game gets too easy I will probably get bored and just stop playing. Everybody asked them to make Terror Zones harder. They made them easier instead. :smiley:

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After checking out other topics & streamers, I also want to mention how much Sunder Charm’s break builds with minions. Currently the charm only has an effect on your Character, and nothing else.

That means Traps, Hydras and Summons don’t get the benefit of the Sunder Charm’s. This completely nerfs a ton of build options, again as mentioned above, does the complete opposite goal of expanding character build options.

I want to also restate that I’m not trying to say Sunder Charm’s are a overall bad gameplay idea. It’s the introduction of them that I have concerns about, and how they will drastically have a negative effect D2R as a whole.

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A thread on how to “fix” Sunder charms, since we are probably stuck with them.

Ok, changes i would make to those charms (assuming they are a going live) - PTR Feedback - Diablo 2 Resurrected Forums (blizzard.com)

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I love this game sooo much for PVP and End game. Each patch improves nothing for us, just creates obstacles. The devs don’t understand the game and clearly don’t care about pvp. Just single player apparently. I bought a 2k Microsoft computer for this game alone…… and I’m watching it get ruined fml

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r.i.p. d2
it’s been a long way…

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If the current trend continues, the next dev post will have these sunder charms off a vendor and you need to level the charms up in an endless scaling fashion by running scaling terror zones.

Next they’ll rework class sets to give 20000% extra damage to keep up with the future new Greater Terror zones unlocked by farming terror coins which you can also buy from the new mtx shop they’re devoting all their resources to.

They’ll also re-imagine the highly requested loot filter by making only unique items beam an orange light - while you continue to where’s waldo through text, looking for ‘superior dusk shroud’ and walking past a ber rune text that only appears offscreen.

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i really hope they just cancel the idea

but they wont. They suck. even if the community is pretty much 50/50 on their sundering charms, (not even accounting the fact that people that love them are noobs and returds) they wont remove it just because they are too egotistic.

for anyone still thinking its a good thing: IMMUNITIES ARE THE MOTOR OF NEW BUILDS, YOU MAKE NEW BUILDS TO DEAL WITH IMMUNITIES
and its like instead of buffing some builds they went “oh lets just burn the whole place down”

like if my cold sorc can farm anywhere why would i make any other character?

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First of all, nice start with being offensive vs. people with different opinion. Congratz mr. I know everything clap clap. For me… let me put it in your language CHECKING OUT NEW BUILD MECHANICS IS MOTOR FOR CREATING DIFFERENT BUILDS. At the moment what’s sad for me is that chars that I like playing can do 10% of end game content.

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like which ones xargus?

dont say poison dagger necro or creeper druid please

Fire Sorc’s my fav. You can only do Andy, Meph, Cows (all chars can do those anyway so…), Tombs and maybe Glacier+Drifter unless you roll the minotaurs. Mausoleum is a joke of an area…

So I’d say it’s not much since you’re missing on Pit, Ancient tunnels, Arcane, Travincal, River & Chaos, Halls, Keep+Baal etc.

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So is your plan to roll hammerdin until you get a fire charm and then you can finally play your fire sorc - get bored in 2 weeks because your fire sorc can do exactly what any other character can do - and now no incentive to make any other

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its exactly the opposite

Because there are only a handful of ways to reduce a monster’s immunity, only a minute portion of hero builds can successfully farm all zones in Diablo II: Resurrected. We realize that this can create scenarios where certain builds are unable to take full advantage of the current Terror Zone, thus missing out on the experience gains, and most importantly, the fun of these zones.

there was no reason to build any of those before
everything they do other spec is able to do it better

those twe have always been the top ones and people still played other specs

do you know how hard a cold sundered is to drop?
1/70k from a terrorized unique

why people keep making different specs in PoE? torchlight2? LA?

im sorry but this thread is nothing but pure collective hysteria

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50% of the player base liked these charms because their are Sorcs. 50% deslikes that ideia because it generates unbalance and power creep. Melee builds get wrecked. Phoenix Strike and dual elemental builds are gone. Fire Claw Druid is still bad and Bowazon now have 40+ free skill points to spend instead of the dual element build. Meta classes is now even Meta. Poison Necro can still farm the whole game because of corpse explosion fire/phys. Hammerdin is Hammerdin. Only winner is Sorc.

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And imagine they will play maybe one season and left the game, never back, and we lovers gonna deal with dead game

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Its actually borderline insulting how obtuse and ham fisted the proposed charms are.

They didn’t take cold mastery into account
They didn’t take physical into account
They didn’t take 1/5th res into account
They didn’t take summons, traps, hydras into account
They didn’t take thaw and antidote potions into account
It didn’t even occur to them unique item stat ranges.
They didn’t take ranged vs melee distance into account
They didn’t take fire/lightning more dangerous than cold/poison into account.

And so much more!

What skeleton crew is churning this update out?! Good golly… I’m convinced the original dev team moved to D4 and this game is being supported by the same folks maintaining D3.

Its not the D3 crews fault either… they just need to get someone who actually knows and respects the game!!

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i think the way they adressed fire build wasnt bad, maybe just remove some fire immunities in favor of magic immunes would balance it all out

plague runeword on act 5 does a good job for budget immunity breaking option for now i think

i agree with grumpykiten"s post just over me, those changes were rushed; most people that actually want the change seem to be casuals that only roll their only character and wish their own unique build was more efficient. There are other ways to adress that problem than by shuffling all the meta cards into a big mess

we really just need some more magic immunes instead of fire immunes, easy fix.

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That I agree! I don’t say they should stay in current form for sure. I think there is at least few things to address in first place as you mentioned:

  1. cold mastery
  2. physical charm is a joke
  3. “pets” are not affected which is bad

On those so many people are complaining that I am pretty sure they will work on above 3. Those complaints are showing in every single post.

But hey, what I am saying is that I am happy that they are addressing immunities that were closing doors for a lot of builds to enjoy full game :slight_smile:

P.S. What about thaw/antidote potions? I didn’t get that one.

1 Like