Sunder = bad game philosophy

Ok, I get it. It’s a business decision. You want to sell copies to the people that didn’t like D2 up to now and expand the playerbase. Like we didn’t know this world yet.

But addressed to the designers, from a game-philosophy-point-of-view:
What are you trying to achieve?

Let me elaborate:
I play this game for 20+ years, on and off, hardcore-ladder or singleplayer (with qol-mods) exclusively. I like the fact that gear means something in hardcore. You have to think holisticly about your equipment, and there is always a trade off of safety vs. power.
What keeps me motivated each ladder is the fact, that I can’t do everything with one character. I have to think about what I want to do, do I farm ubers, get to 99, hunt for runes or rare uniques, etc… I enjoy creating characters for different tasks, trying to achieve the goal of equipping one character to be able to “beat the game” aka clear everything.
My current endgame character is a nova-sorceress that clears the Chaos Sanctuarium (or any content) on players 8 with ridiculous speed. Still De Seis sometimes is light-immune (with sunder she would clear even faster and De Seis would never be immune again, but that is not even the point here). The point is: it took me nearly all ladder to get to this point! It kept me motivated, it was the reason why I wanted to find things, urged me to create different characters to “unlock” other areas of the game.
And you know what? As soon as you have such a character, it doesn’t take long until it gets boring. Yes, your character can now farm evey area of the game, but what for? There is nothing more to accomplish, except maybe going for 99. For this exact reason I never played a hammerdin in 20+ years. Because a character that can clear everything on his first playthrough is boring. With a little gear it gets even worse, you just tele into everything and hold lmb, you don’t even have to pay attention, watch the game or make decisions accordingly. It is boring.
The difference always was, that it meant a lot of effort to enable any character to do the things, that a hammerdin already did effortlessly. You now take that away. Imagine I find a cold-sunder-charm at lvl 75 on day two of the ladder. Or within the first week. Congrats, my ladder-start-char is now also my endgame char that can clear everything. It will get boring very soon after that.

The second thing that I think is bad game-philosophy is, that the charms discourage group play.
Group play is already pretty dead in my opinion, when I remember the times of 1.09 or 1.10 it was different. If the terror zones would be challenging, with immunities, there would be a great motivation to play as a group again, since not even a hammerdin can clear 'em all. Instead you do the opposite. Now every char will be able to clear every terror zone by itself.
Before there were three Monsters in the game at level 94+, each one difficult to access. Now that we can farm level 94+ monsters like candy, a lot of people will want to farm the terror zones for magic finding, preferably in a full game, but also preferably without loot-competition. So instead of bringing the players together, you create rivalry between them. They will have to fight for chunks of a terror zone, fastest clearing char wins. I am also sceptical about the inflation of tc87 items.

If the changes go live as they are now, I will maybe play classic next season. A shared stash would be nice, please. Or I go back playing singleplayer, old versions with mods, as I don’t feel challenged by the online version anymore.

Everything above is pretty reasonable I think. I still would like to express my anger and disappointment in one short unreasonable statement:

Old school rules!
New school is weak!

Yea, take a deep breath from your vanilla-coconut flavoured e-cig on that one!

hhaien

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Immunities were also a bad game philosophy, that’s why we’re in this situation in the first place.

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Immunities = bad game deisgn.

I mean I hope they just get rid of them and make Teleport way more common, but I will take Sunder charms.

Nothing about money too, majority of D2 both hardcore and casual fans asked for this. Thank you Blizzard for listening. :heart:

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Diversity in builds and equipment. It allows for more items to break immunities rather than Infinity runeword. Not sure why that’s a bad thing.

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Immunities is ok the only problem was that they were so high infinity wouldn’t break them.
but even then you could easily work around immunities.
they added 85 areas with no fire immunes
there’s areas with no cold immunes.
these areas aren’t better or worse than the other areas
by and large people who had trouble with immunities were noobs

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I am sorry you find it boring, but for many of us with full-time jobs, the ability to get the most bang for our limited time is quite enjoyable. In your example, if I were to get an Enigma, infinity and all the best gear in the game on day two of ladder, that would be the best-case scenario for me. I usually get all of it by the first week because I am particularly good at trading and flipping items.

You are probably bored because there is not enough end game content for your to enjoy.

With regards to group play, I feel like Diablo has always been a single player game. Once you get enough gear you start playing solo to be able to secure your loot. There is no system in place for online group play that allows players to have a fair shot at picking up items for equal work put in for a kill. So, unless you have an advantage such as a pick it tool it’s not wise to keep playing with other players.

D2R is heading in the right direction. The sundered charms are a band aid for a larger fix.

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I got tired of always haveing to do the same work around, or just skip monsters, areas to farm. It was fun for a while, now it’s just tedious, and annoyeing, excludeing builds that are not hammerdins, or spec dual dmg types, so never reaching their true potential.

I understand but I think sunder charms are a bit broken and were poorly designed

Gate-keeping the game behind an item that only non-lifers would get or from shady third party trading platforms that probably got it by exploits is also terrible game design choice. Even then, Infinity would not make all builds remotely viable.

You did not read the rest of my post either, I explained the difference between difficulty/ challenging and just tedious/ broken game design. Immunities were never challenging and nothing about them was ever remotely fun.

Immunities are bad design that is not needed, period. Like I said, they should have just removed Immunities but this will work for now.

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thing is you don’t need this item to start it’s and end game goal
and I don’t think it’s so bad that it takes some work to get to infinity
the fact that it’s hard makes it more fun when you get there.
if you can p8 farm fast right from the bat you’ll get bored pretty quick
go join the third party trading site instead of complaining it’s a lot better than trading in game
and isn’t against the rules

Like I said, gate-keeping the game content is terrible design choice. By the time you get Enigma and Infinity in legit way, what would you even be farming for? Why would you even be playing that Ladder season after spending that much time?

True story, player 8 farm. Because you have 7 friends always in the ready, because there is /players x command, and because split magic finding is efficient?

Shady third party websites with people exploiting and hoarding trading currency. I am not into that personally.

I could think of better ways yes. Sunder charms are a hastey decision. If they stay, next patch should start balance around them. If temporary, devs must start working on a better solution.

Balance issues aside.

Make the sunder charms twice as rare as a ber drop.

Many issues resolved.

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you don’t have to do it
I use the site and I don’t use hoarded currency on new ladders. that ruins the fun for me

you are contradicting yourself

the real issue is the dev dont have the ball to nerf something or balance item , mean they can not remove Immunities from the game , because all item and infinity that drop resistence already will be so op .

so they throw this charm on the top of this broken mess

anyway time to move on

he play diablo 2 because is a legacy game and now today d2 become a retail game , so playing a retail game . better play poe or other modern rpg , i find anymore reason too play d2 , have fun with a game with 2 devloper , expect a lot of content and update lmao . later guy going to enjoy my poe 2 hande ww marauder=barbarian

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With this I agree with you and I have said it before, they’re too scared to change the meta and nerf things.

Immunities indeed should have straight up just been removed and they modified things like Infinity, not a bad idea.

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yeah they were, but the charms are much WORSE.

Look bro the casuals won. They always win. Just gotta get the charms and abuse them as much as possible

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Devs are not scared of anything, they just execute based on what the project manager tells them to do. Complex changes take a lot of time and require a big budget and if bliz doesn’t cash in accordingly, that change will not happen.

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Immunities are a part of Diablo culture! Sans immunities, we get games like Diablo 3!

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