Solution to d2JSP's impact on the competitive integrity of ladder resets

For those of you unaware, d2jsp is a multi-game trading website which operates using a currency known as forum gold. Forum gold (called ‘FG’ hereon out) is a digital “points” currency which can be obtained either by trading items to users on the forum in exchange for FG, or by spending real money in exchange. FG never decays with time and it can be earned from items in one game to be spent on items in another (for example, I could sell items in Path of Exile for FG, then take that FG and buy items in diablo 2). The value of FG is dependent on the internal economy of d2JSP, and fluxuates as such (see the recent surge in price of Ber rune due to the overabundance of sorceresses and compare it to the relative prices of Ber runes in previous ladder resets…)

I’m obviously no fan of this website, the notion of a 3rd party currency holding value in economy-based games, and most importantly, losers ruining the integrity of the game due to materialistic greed… but this is outside the scope of this discussion. I’m not here to tell you why D2JSP is a blight on the community, why users who RMT with it should be permanently banned, or how the higher ups on that website do everything in their power to not only manipulate the d2 economy to their personal benefits, but also make an irl profit doing so.

I’m here to explain why d2JSP FUNDAMENTALLY undermines the integrity of Diablo 2 ladder resets, as well as offer a solution which intends to maintain the competitive integrity of ladder resets without the explicit banning of D2JSP.

To start, I will ask: “what is a ladder reset? what are its implications?”

To define a ladder reset is simple: in Diablo 2, a new ladder is a complete economy reset for the purpose of giving all players an even starting point to participate in a competitive leaderboard. Obviously, no 2 Diablo players are created equal (compare people like Mrllamasc to people who have never beaten Hell mode solo in entirely self found gear), so I would like to place emphasis on the words an even starting point… what any given Diablo 2 player does from that starting point is a matter of their skill as a player, and THAT is precisely where the competitive value of a ladder reset is realized: all players begin on equal footing, and then it’s a race to display knowledge, planning, and skill.

A player which has 3 Ber runes in non-ladder cannot, under normal circumstances, take these Ber runes into the new ladder reset and use/trade them. A player which has 3 Ber runes in non-ladder then decides to cash them into FG does, in a way, have the ability to take the purchasing power of those runes into the fresh economy. This is obviously a fundamental undermining of the very purpose of ladder resets described above, as this hypothetical player is able to bring inordinate amounts of spending power into this “fresh” economy.

I want you to imagine 3 players entering a ladder reset: a “casual” JSP user with a handful of FG, a veteran JSP user with 2 decades worth of FG, and a rookie D2 player joining for their first ladder. In this fresh economy, the second player is coming in with a clear and non-debatable economic advantage over the other two players, just as the first player has a clear economic advantage over the third player. While the first player may spend his FG then run into a spot of bad luck and be caught up by a contrarily lucky third player, there is no conceivable way that the first or the third player will EVER be able to compete with the JSP whale who is able to afford to buy GG items as they drop into existence.

The fact that JSP users are able to enter a fresh economy with literal decades worth of accumulated currency undermines the very notion of an economy reset, and as such, undermines the competitive integrity of the ladder.

One response I may get is along the lines of “but speedrunner groups will dominate every ladder regardless of what JSPers are spending, so ladders aren’t competitive anyway!” First off, this is complete nonsense that, if true, suggests there is no reason at all for having ladders in the first place. To properly address this sentiment, we must dive into my solution for the problem of JSP and ladder integrity (and which also poses a solution for the domination of reset groups vs solo players/pub gamers).

The solution here is simple - Give players the option to create “solo-self found” characters in addition to the hardcore and ladder options, and make separate leaderboards for softcore/softcore solo self found/hardcore/hardcore solo self found. By “solo-self found” I mean:

-the player checks an option at creation, just like hardcore or ladder
-the player will be unable to enter games with other players on this character (thus preventing trading)
-this character’s stash is only linked to other self-found characters on the player’s account (just like the current split between softcore and hardcore)
-this character’s progress will be tracked on a separate leaderboard to non-self found characters (just like how softcore and hardcore have separate leaderboards).

And there you have it… this solution (as implemented so successfully by Path of Exile) not only deals with the problem created by JSP currency in a fresh economy, but it would also give players without connections with 7 other tryhards a chance to be competitive on their class’s ladder.

As an individual who has beaten Hell mode on multiple solo self found hardcore characters in D2, I would argue that it is the most “pure” way to play the game, causing the player to rely solely on their ability to play around the items they are able to find themselves.

Naysayers may reply “just play offline mode if you want to solo so bad,” and they would be missing the point. The entire point to my solution is not about playing solo, it’s about maintaining the competitive integrity offered by an economy reset. Without a solo-self found option (and with D2JSP whales being a thing) there simply IS NO EQUAL ECONOMY RESET when ladders reset. My reply to “just play offline” is “why even have a ladder when JSP traders have an advantage that others do not?” Imagine if people were able to go into classic WoW with 1500 gold right off the bat… Now imagine that is more like 15,000 gold+ and that is what it’s like to be a D2JSP whale entering a fresh ladder economy. If the leaderboard and economy resets don’t mean anything, then why in the hell would we even have a ladder reset in the first place?

Either give us Solo Self Found ladders, or don’t bother releasing ladders at all.

tl;dr (too long for my peabrain, so I ignored most of it; give me a summary):

-JSP allows players to enter a fresh economy with external purchasing power
-such purchasing power undermines the competitive nature of the ladder reset
-solo self found ladder would allow for a pure economy reset without the risk of external purchasing power such as RMT or JSP

23 Likes

Thanks for taking the time for this write up, i agree with everything said.
d2jsp (no they don’t get the capital D here) undermining the general D2R economy with their forum gold system is something that needs to be stopped in some way or it will have ruined any new game version or ladder reset economy already even before it started.
Apart from that the idea of the rich amongst us being able to buy the best items with ease is demotivating for legit players.
This should be top priority to Blizzard if they have any care for the future of their Diablo franchise, not just D2R right now.

6 Likes

Sure, makes sense, I see no problem with doing a ssf mode as the “pillar of integrity” for ladder

It would also be a fun new challenging type of ladder mode for players, akin to how hardcore changes the game, so would ssf. Can only be a good thing, I think

2 Likes

Your desired game already exists: single player.

5 Likes

If you are SSF why do you bother about economy?

What I read here is a ask for a single payer ladder. This character should remain offline but I see value on having an offline ladder which is syncing up upon logging on to bnet, so that offline players have some challenge. I do like this idea, especially for HC.

3 Likes

We got years of ladders in original D2 without any issues or complains about d2jsp. Its just a problem for the few people who joined cause of the remaster. The core fanbase accepts and uses d2jsp. Play d3 if you want to block trading in any ways

5 Likes

there is solo self found, its called dont trade at all or play singleplayer

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@CRDT You clearly didn’t read my post well enough to deserve to reply. Read again, as I’ve already addressed this claim…

@Reinheit you clearly didn’t read my post well enough either, as the post is not about the integrity of the economy, but rather about the competitive integrity of the ladder. Furthermore, playing offline allows potential for hacks which are regulated on battlenet, and finally, the ladder requires a connection to participate.

@lemon you completely ignore the focus of the discussion, why even post? Say something about the competitive integrity of ladders, as you’ve done NOTHING to even address my points, much less refute anything I’ve said

@Deejudanne this is not about playing solo, this is about having a ladder with competitive integrity

Jesus Christ, can you JSP shills even be bothered to read? Don’t come offering your 2 cents to topics you won’t put effort into understanding.

6 Likes

There is nothing to adress in your points. D2jsp is accepted by the d2 community and no one agrees with you. No one will change anything just cause you dislike it while 1.000.000 other players dont have any problem with it.

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Well that’s totally the unbiased truth and not a fabrication at all.

/s

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competitive integrity kinda goes out the window regardless of jsp cause the people first to high ladder ranking will have all the time in the world and presumably a squad to run with.

that’s a better reason for a SSF ladder in my opinion. though having the ability to grind 12 hours a day still skews things.

be that as it may. i would love an SSF ladder. how it would be implimented is another story. single player with a bnet sync seems like the optimal choice cause you could p8.

2 Likes

play SP.

Btw thx for advertising D2Jsp

JSP is not evil like how some of you clowns spout.

It’s actually much safer community to trade with much less scams than bnet.

FG facilities the purchasing of smaller items. For example, if you had an Ohm rune and wanted to trade it for a bunch of smaller items, in Bnet, it’s very difficult to find someone who’s (1) willing to make that trade and (2) won’t scam you. But in JSP, you can sell your Ohm for FG, then use the FG to buy a bunch of small items at low cost.

1 Like

whats the difference between this and 3 ppl entering the ladder with no money, some money, and a lot of money? Obviously the guy with money will have a huge advantage purchasing gear…
at least jsp provides a safe location to do so. if it doesnt exist, another platform will. you’ll never stop people from P2W unless items are not tradable.

2 Likes

Decent post, i suggest a TL:DR for your solution. Also stackable gems and runes up to 999 will go a long way to make in-game trading more feasible, im hoping they do this.

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This is not meant as confrontational:

Considering the biggest streamer of the game makes his channel mostly about SSF playthroughs, even with intentional gimps, I think your projecting a bias… There is no way to truly know what percentage of players are d2jsp people, but I do think Llamas channel does allude to something - that a ssf playthrough is a respectable thing.

I think this is what OP is really talking about…

Its very hard for a SSF ladder pusher to push the same way a jsp user is and it does create an unbalanced arena. That being said…

I think having a group of 8 friends that decide to play using team builds is an even bigger advantage than d2jsp, but that’s another topic…

You don’t need a BO Swap Or an enigma, or crazy resists (salvation), or infinity if you have friends taking on those dedicated roles…

Insert gollum meme…

But yeah, if you have those 4 dedicated supports and 4 dedicated dps your gonna push sooner than anyone waiting on the economy, also keep in mind players 8 buff… So I do think a SSF mode with a competitive ladder would be the most “fair” way of ladder competition - even in the absence of JSP, for the team building issue I bring up.

2 Likes

you realize the item cost on that website scales with the rarity?

and the start of ladder, no items exist. that means the first Gg item found is usually sold for an ungodly price. <1% of the user base can afford these items anyway

that means your chances of even interacting with someone who can afford the first item drops are even lower

so it doesn’t really affect you or your progress at all

the only time it gets really pay to win is about halfway through ladder when prices stabilize. but at that point, you are probably already where you want to be anyway.

it’s not as big of a deal as you may think

It just seams like there will always be a way… And having a group of 8 friends that can take on the dedicated support roles (BO, Tele, Salvation, Conviction) and then dedicated DPS roles will be a greater advantage than JSP at ladder start, and a team like this will be getting the good drops first and sharing loot when they get it…

What im saying is even without JSP your gonna have an unfair system, and i do think the only way to make it fair is a SSF mode where your on bnet, but cant join with other people or them join you. Seams like the most legit form of competition to me.

Another mode that comes to mind is a SSF Team… You could make a SSF team of a max of 8 players that can only play with each other, but would be a team ssf ladder. so you could have a gen ladder, a ssf team ladder, and a ssf ladder along with their HC counterparts.

1 Like

I like the SSF mode idea, id also propose a SSF Team ladder… where on this ladder you chose a group of 8 people, and these 8 people can only play together. So you get teams competing against each other, and also opening up builds for people like me that like to run support characters which really shine at ladder start.

its ok, but, any know when start ladder? i waiting room blizzard pls