This makes them pointless for the majority of elemental builds in the game. It makes them pointless for the majority of classes in the game. Instead of making these synergy choked builds more effective, it pushes them into using Doom, or Phoenix, or Crescent Moon, or self wield Infinity to make using these charms more effective than skipping immune mobs. These are solutions that work for a pinch of elemental build in the game. It further suffocates gear options, making items like Infinity more mandatory because pierce is so rare or doesn’t exist for some elements or classes. Go kick some rocks, plaguezon.
There’s one sunder, physical, that doesn’t function like this, and it makes it the most useful one. Sunder physical immunity, decrep or amp apply at full effect, and all of a sudden this charm is worth taking 10-15% more physical damage. Isn’t that crazy how that works?
Bottom line, taking an immune mob that’s affected by only 1/5 of a resistance lowering effect down to 95 res that’s affected by only 1/5 of a resistance lowering effect, effectively doesn’t change the game at all. In true congruency with D2 mechanics, covic, LR, CM should all work at 100% effectiveness against a mob that isn’t immune to the damage type. This should be the major appeal of taking a -70-90 hit to a resistance.
I’m well aware that I’m just pissing into the wind with no shoes on by noticing what should be changed about this abandoned game.
You do realize that against everything that isn’t Sundered, you’re likely doing amplified damage to at most x2 Damage? No complaint there right? So, against the few enemies that happen to be immune to you(some of which could not be broken by traditional means) are now suddenly a problem because your Cold Mastery, Conviction or Lower Resist doesn’t work at face value? You do realize that if it did, Cold Sorceress would enjoy -100 Resistance against EVERYTHING, Unique Monster Bonuses be damned because Sunder Charms make them irrelevant. Same deal with Holy Fire/Holy Shock Paladins since their Conviction would put Sundered Enemies at -45 just by virtue of their aura. Tack on other pierce gear and they’re near or at -100 too without even really trying.
Not to be rude but you’re barking up the wrong tree. Hammerdins can’t pierce Magic Resistance. Do you see them complaining? I mean what’s wrong with enemies having 35% Resistance to you? At least you can hurt them compared to having to avoid them or deal damage in another element.
Finally, your argument on Physical avoids the elephant in the room: Does Physical have Rainbow Facet Jewels or -Enemy Physical Resistance Gear to utilize? Does Elemental casters have to deal with Attack Rating or Block? You know the answer so take your complaint and shove it.
It did this in the first season of sunder charms, and sorcs still moved to lit as soon as possible because cold was still too slow. This also an interaction that exists only for cold sorcs, and was proven not to move cold sorc’s viability needle in the first season.
Yes, along with bonemancers, and pretty rightfully so given that magic sunders are legitimately useless as there is no pierce support in the game for magic damage.
Do elemental builds have +300% and +400% damage modifiers on armor to utilize? Does anything close to Grief exist for elemental builds? How many builds have room for more than 2 facets that would be more effective than RW options? Is everyone now using jeweler’s plates instead of enigma? Did 3os circlets suddenly replace griffon’s or flickering flame?
I’m fully aware of what I’m asking, and I’m fully aware that it’s better, not worse, for the game.
As ever, you’re as arrogant and rude as your are wrong. As if physical builds don’t grossly outscale elemental build damage in this game.
I wouldn’t want them removing the 1/5 penalty for free, but I would like to see -enemy resistances added into rare items, and sprinkled across some of the unique items to make these more exciting to come across.
Like for example the undead crown could have -10 to -15 lower poison resistance which would make it an exciting find.
Anyway, you are talking nonsense. Caster builds massively outscale melee in this game and you are not supposed to 1 shot with a single element in lumps. The biggest issue between the elements is that lightning damage has so much more and better gear options than fire/cold and poison gearing options are a joke compared to even fire/cold.
Fcr on items like nightwing and flickering flame would have been great. An armour like ormus but with Oskill teleport and -res for fire light and poison would be nice additions to the gearing options. But the penalty on LR and Conviction really isn’t the problem. Infinity with conviction and up to -55 LR clearly tips the scale. Griffons with massive -lr fcr etc with no counterpart makes lightning dmg types shine.
Overall sunder charms were an awful implementation and there would have plenty of better options to balance the elements
im confused whats the issue here?
he does realize that the 1/5th penalty is there regardless if if they are sundered or not… right??? its nothing something that was “added”
you get 1/5th from 95% rather than from 110% or more?
and yes physical doesn’t get the 1/5th penalty from sundered because we literally have no way of lowered other than those 2 skills, decrepify and amp.
no there are no facets or gear can remove resists without penalty.
and even so physical is still a joke by comparison to caster?
you want to buff caster more? ROFL.
infinity and mosaic should be non-ladder single player only to go with the 1.08 stuff.
honestly sunder charms were a terrible implementation of a good idea
there shouldn’t be charms at all… it should just be capped at 95% by default with everything over 100 just used as a buffer to to make it harder to lower from.
The existing mechanic prior to sunders existing is that LR and Convic work at 1/5 effectiveness against IMMUNE mobs. If that 1/5 value takes the mob below 100 res, then the immunity is broken. Adding sunders to this equation, the sunder removes the immunity, and at that point effects like convic and LR would work at 100% effectiveness. These effects working at 1/5 is a special implementation specifically for the sunder charm interaction with these effects.
This is still in the same vein as what I’m saying here. Convic and LR working at 1/5 effectiveness is far less reduction than having them work at 100% against a starting value of 130.
Your list of what, people you disagree with?
Yes, but fixing this isn’t going to happen in D2R. It’s been 3 seasons of the nothing being added to the game.
As for using mosaic as the basis for any point or argument, I don’t acknowledge this item. It is not a D2 item. It is a further bastardization of D2 that’s been put into D2R. The way that mosaic would or would not be affected by further changes isn’t a basis for a legitimate point because mosaic doesn’t belong in the game and hasn’t improved any facet of the game in any way.
i mean it would if they had removed the fear from grim ward, which i assumed they did until i played barb
i really thought they had replaced the fear with a - physical resist aura and a slow
i didnt know they had just ADDED a slow and a minus resist TO the fear.
i mean outside of throw barb, i cant see a use for grim ward with the fear still attached
as to the OP
are you trying to completely remove the 1/5th penalty???
no, that would absolutely break the game
hell, infinity with sunders already breaks the game
no one wants every enemy to be at -100 elemental resist.
that’s delusional
This is already how the game works against non immune mobs. This is already the power scaling in D2. I don’t know why you’re acting like this is breaking new ground on any front. This is the strange cognitive dissonance that exists on this forum around how strong anything is in this game.
Before sunders, builds were doing this exact thing with infinity, but skipping mobs that couldn’t be broken by the 17 pierce that infinity offers against them, also why lit was and continues to be the best element as the majority of lit immune mobs have 115 lit res. Against everything else, they were blasting negative resistances. This is also the case for all cold sorcs and all convic builds, and paladins were also using lit for similar reasons.
This doesn’t change the game as dramatically as you seem to think it would. Has the game dramatically changed for physical builds who are doing this exact thing with bone break? Really think about it.
yes… you were skipping mobs… and now you dont have to
congrats… your now dealing almost as low as melee level damage to mobs if u choose to not skip them
cold sorc damage is WAY lower than light and fire becuase of cold mastery
as for melee
even with -5% resist from a amped sundered physical immune mob…
melee kill speed is still pathetically slow compared to casters.
melee also doesnt get - res on gear like casters did
thats the reason why melee didnt get thier 1/5th penalty added, because even without the penalty … they’re still bad compared to casters
And this was done to make LR and Conviction work EXACTLY like they did before sunders, nothing really changed except the fact that immune monsters have a 95% max res to start with which means people will still be able to kill these mobs without expensive items or playing lightning builds only, but at a much slower pace. In fact you got a 5% free pen to start off with on top of the LR or Convic which makes them better than before
Immunities in general were a bad game design. I never undwrstood how a powerful meteor could kill Baal, but not hurt the weakest act 1 fire immune fallen monsters.
It wouldn’t be hell if there weren’t difficulties to overcome or obstacles to get around… There was also only so much health pool they could throw at the game due to the signed 32bit integer limitation. If you were to massively buff the regular monsters health into the millions just to make them tougher, the health pools of bosses and ubers would need higher amounts than the 32bit signed integer limitation. Diablo 3 was 64 bit, and they stopped at greater rift 150 because of the 64 bit limitation.
The general idea of monster immunity is that a creature that is “of an element” shouldn’t be harmed by that element. If you take a blow torch to a vat of molten steel, are you going to damage the molten steel, or heat it up further?
Sunder and its dumb charms needs to disappear
Immunities need to disappear as well by capping resists at 95, only be possible in rare occasion
1/5th penalty remains for total resist above cap
There are other ways to add challenge to a game, I personally dont like the idea of 100% immunities to any element. Having to skip an enemy because they dont take damage from your most powerful attack, in my opinion is just bad game design. There is nothing wrong with immunities like in your example, i just dint think its a good fit for this game
Well of course there’s always other ways to add challenge to a game. None of them are perfect. With time, there will always be positives and negatives found for each way, with the help of observing, comparing and contrasting to other newer and sometimes even old ways of adding challenge to games. Keep in mind this is a remaster of what is now a 25 year old game that was based on 32 bit coding and were working with extremely slow systems compared to today’s systems, so they did things differently a quarter century ago.
If you really want a challenge, you’re not going to find it in a game that you’ve sank thousands of hours into and know like the back of your hand by tweaking this and changing that… You just need a new game.
